Wow. They weren’t even subtle about it.

That’s why, when I book a show, I send a separate email with all of the details…. load in, pay, set time, etc. Now if there’s a way to get bands to actually read that email – I’d love to hear it.

Haha.

Do they apologize?

Any good, honest, awesome venues in that area you recommend?

Did he ask you to do any parlor tricks, too?

House concerts are especially great for respectful, attentive audiences.

Hmmm. Kinda shady. Sounds like they wanted some wiggle room after the fact.

Oooo. Zeroing out the register! Nasty trick.

Do you find that clubs are usually resistant to anything union-related?

A 3-month battle of the bands? Wow. That’s a lot of competition.

Suddenly I feel quite melancholy.

Buying tickets to your own show is something every band should do once, and then learn form their mistake and never do it again.

I’m picking up the certain breadcrumb trail you’ve been leaving on this pond’s lilly pads.

Ah, so true. Thanks for adding these to the discussion. Your number 4 is really annoying when you spend time crafting a particular bill because you suspect a certain combination of bands will draw. All of a sudden, your fans have to choose one band to credit, and they’ll probably just blurt out the headliner.

There is a comfort in a regular gig, for sure, even if it means you have to put up with a few inconveniences.

Nice move ransoming the laptop for your owed fee.

In public, with a few of your friends?

Yes indeed. Always find out EVERYTHING that could potentially come out of the door money.

Maybe you could show up at the bar unannounced and play a long set of the worst possible music you could imagine making, and tell him you want stop until your check clears the bank.

Sneaky devils.

Funny that you mention that scenario with that exact figure. I have friends who have played the same gig for 13 years at that rate without adjusting for inflation, standard of living costs, etc.

I’m speechless.

People forget about the fact that the money gets split between multiple members, for the time they spent traveling, practicing, playing, waiting, etc.

2 words: taser gun.

That point is so true that it’s often forgotten. Why would 2 parties, both intent on making a night successful, not put terms and expectations in writing?

“Maximum pay/Minimum screwage” sounds like a blog post waiting to be written!

this club is now closed. what a surprise….

That’s a great concept. Unfortunately, in my area, there are about 100 venues and 10,000 bands. It’s called over saturation. No solution in the near future.

I owned a club and live venue for many years in miami, fl and have run many events and concerts nationwide for years. I have then assisted in band and label management for years, generating revenue and world tours. First things first.. a $300 payday for 150 people showing up isn’t horrible. What is horrible is as a band, you think that is your only way to generate revenue. You have cd’s (and signed cd’s for a few dollars more maybe) you have merchandise like stickers, tshirts, to start..many other options are there. Remember, this is “work” and is not easy..you complained that there is set-up time and break down time.. that is part of your work. if you do not like what you do, then there are plenty of 9-5 jobs out there. Hopefully you didn’t have to pay the staff at the venue, or the electric bills, or the marketing, or the cleaning crew afterwards, or the sound engineer or..(should i really continue?) or be forced to “buy” tickets to play the venue and must sell them to profit..It just sounds like you want a piece of the pie that isn’t your to begin with. You are 1 part of the entire evening’s “experience”, and hopefully you do what you are being hired to do; “Entertain the crowd”

Also, what we did as a venue (and requested venues did for us when we were getting paid by the door) is the venue has the security staff checking for ID’s but ALL cash transactions are handled by the band’s representative. If you choose to let the hot girls in for free, then that is your choice. You set the rules.

There are many other options. Want more advice? Want to create more revenue? Contact info@facelesstechnologies.com

http://www.facelesstechnologies.com

One we ran into big time a a couple of clubs, esp if you’re working for the door where you are filling the clubs. BRING YOUR OWN DOOR MAN! we pay ours 50$ or 5% of the door which ever is greater, that way the more they collect the better and they have the power to negotiate. For example it’s getting late, they’ll take 3 bucks instead of 5 just to get some money for us instead of walking out. Make sure they are from out of town so their buddies don’t get in free. I expect a little loss when locals are running our door. I wouldn’t charge my good friends either but that’s why I’m not at the door. We had a club (Lock Stock and Barrel in Decatur, IL) Skimming hundreds of dollars for years before we finally figured out what we should be making. The door guys skimmed (2 doors) the management skimmed, and probably kickbacked the bar staff. They freaked when we brought our own guys. We said they could run the door but we wanted to check a tally for ourselves so if they ran the door our guy would have a counter. Stopped the skimming, we made a LOT more per show and then moved on to another club in that town. If your making nothing but the door they shouldn’t have a right to tell you you can’t bring your own staff.

1% of the door is a joke. I used to DJ a club and got 10% of the bar ring. I also worked as an in house performer at another club and got 100% of the door. 1%? Please.

Down here in Miam, Florida clubs do not generally sign contracts as a rule. The band market is so over-saturated down here that clubs have the upper hand. I do feel pretty good about the fact that we have been able to pull in no less than $500/night and sometimes 600 or 700 for our performances. Of course, this is all covers – even though I have have my own CD out and on iTunes – doesn’t matter – they just want covers and there is no venue who cares about all original artists unless they are already known. Some clubs will try the ripoff of bands and we learn and hear from others about them and don’t even bother to play there. Make friends with other bands and don’t talk about other bands and you can all help each other.

excellent article.. thanks

Bummer.

About ’91, I had a Duo that was booked through a decent agent at a small lounge / hotel across the ferry from Seattle — it was when playing to midi tracks was the new thing- (and hated by many of course)

the 1st night of the 5 night gig, Tues, a small crowd from a wedding next door came in and had a great time — at the end of the night the owner called us into the office, and very nicely and with apologies , let us go…..what??!

he explained that he thought we were just fine and professional, but he wanted musicians that “played their own instruments–nothing personal, I’m sorry, I’m just old fashioned” –

we were so dumbstruck it took a minute to sink in —
he thought we were completely faking it to the midi tracks,
(I played ‘real’ rhythm and lead, the other guy ‘really’ sang and played rhythm)

I wished I had the presence of mind to tell him that all the tracks were manually done by me etc etc, but realized over the weeks that
nothing I said would have mattered …

we got paid for the one night

Here’s a scam I used to encounter recently as a solo artist, one man show: “We can only pay you $25.00 or $50.00 bucks but we get real good crowds here and you’ll get a lot of tips and our audience always buys a lot of CDs from the artists. Then, show up and find out there has been no promotion at all, 25 people show up and you get $5.00 or $10.00 in tips and sell 1 or 2 CDs.

That would be amazing! I’ve often wished the standard bill was 2 bands, 8:30-11pm. Perfection.

It’s a weird world when the next wrung up the ladder from Hollywood pay-to-play clubs is LA play-for-free clubs. Baby steps!

Sinem, do you play original music or covers at colleges and weddings? I know it’s pretty typical for colleges to hire musicians that play their own music, but less so for weddings. (Though a few of my friends bands do get hired to play their stuff occasionally at weddings, it isn’t really regular money they could count on.)

Another commenter in this thread had some pretty good advice about getting to know a few lawyers and offering to trade your services (play a house party) for help in drafting a nice, official sounding “get me my money NOW” kinda letter.

Agreed.

It’s impressive to hear about a group of professionals who have got their process for booking, press, promotion, sound, and everything else as streamlined as can be. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Is that page live yet? I’d love to see it.

One of the commenters in the thread offered to share his if you contact him directly.

We play for free because we’re told, as young musicians just starting out, that’s the only way our music will get heard in the beginning. We’re led to believe that this is the way everyone does it, and that we’re just “paying our dues,” and that we don’t yet have enough experience to get paid what we really deserve. And for us, playing for cheap is better than not playing at all.

Well done!

Moose certainly sounds like a big man.

Maybe they should have allowed 1/3rd of their body in the venue.

Thanks for the info. Send an email to cdbaby@cdbaby.com and address it to the marketing department. Or, since we’re right in town, feel free to stop by any time 9-5 M-F!

Coming from a punk/DIY background, I say, set up your own gigs before begging your friendly neighborhood watering hole to give you a fair shake. The logistics can be maddening, and you’re still taking all the risk, but at least you call your own shots — and you get to divide your own spoils…what a concept!

For example: I lived in a small town that had an alternative coffeehouse/bookstore space. We hosted an art show of my wife’s work there. For the opening night, we made the gig free, to take the edge off “that $4 cover is just way too much” excuse — plus, we had food, and a couple different music acts (including yours truly).

Our money came from the art sales, plus we also passed a tip jar around at the end of the night — as I recall, we walked away with about $120-150 from the experience, which proved sufficiently positive to repeat on the closing night, with a similar format (and result). And that’s from selling art! Now, imagine what you could with CDs and merchandise in this scenario. You get the idea.

In short, think of alternative settings where you can present your music to better advantage — I’ve recently played in front of an organic food store (as part of a summer series), and a resale shop run by the local emergency shelter, and those were two of the most satisfying experiences I’ve had. The connections you make will probably provide more satisfying results.

At the end of the day, you’re only as good as the company you keep — and if you’re surrounded by greaseballs and goombahs with clipped cigars sticking out of their mouths, giving you the classic line (“What else ya got, kid?”), guess what? You’re going to get stiffed, every time. No surprises there.

The Portland initiative sounds like a good idea, because it encourages musicians to think of the big picture — what’s good for everybody, versus “me, me, me and only me,” which is another problem that I’ve witnessed in many places. That’s no surprise, in a nation that puts such a premium on the “lone ranger”…but a little bit of creativity and collective action goes a long way… in my experience, at least.

Awesome. Thanks for all this info.

Thanks for sharing. Good points.

If you are able, please send a copy to Truthmusicrecords@gmail.com as well. Thank you!!