What Do You Really Think About the Piracy Issue?

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September 27, 2010{ 132 Comments }

iStock 000002001550XSmall 201x300 What Do You Really Think About the Piracy Issue?

Give Us a Piece of Your Mind!

Some folks in this over-saturated industry equate music piracy with free promotion, reciting the popular soundbite that “obscurity is a greater danger than theft” (Think of BitTorrent pitching their new Artists Pilot Program as a way to “amp up your audience”). Others regard free file-sharing (particularly the illegal kind) as high treason against the sacred art of music. As with most polarizing debates, the truth and best solutions probably live somewhere in-between the extremes.

In defense of those crying foul, shouldn’t talent and craft be rewarded for its own sake? After all, you don’t expect to hire a contractor to remodel your kitchen and then give him 2 beer tickets as payment. You wouldn’t dream of asking some local kid in your neighborhood to mow your lawn for free.

No. You pay them for their service and then enjoy the fruits of their labor, just like when you buy an album or MP3. You’ve paid the artist (and their label, manager, & distributor), and now you can listen to their work at your leisure. And yet I hear at almost every gig, “Hey man, I love your new album! I listen to it all the time.” But when I enthusiastically ask them where they got it from, inevitably they say 1) a torrent site or 2) they burned/ripped/transferred it from a friend.

Even worse, they’re ignorant to the fact that their explanation might offend me.

After all, I’ve spent my own money, time, and talent to make the music this person is now enjoying for free.

Paid In Fun Units

A friend of mine often jokes that musicians today are paid in “fun units.”

She thought up this absurd standardized measurement (which takes on a new colorful meaning when abbreviated to “F-Us”) because music consumers often rationalize their voracious illegal downloading (and their resistance to paying an $8 cover-charge at a music venue when they don’t mind spending $50 on booze) by saying “Well, you’re playing music. At least you’re having fun.”

Really? Because I could think of a few other fun things I’d rather be doing with my time than running scales on the guitar and staring at a computer monitor trying to book another tour.

Or perhaps it is the local club owner or booker saying, “We can’t pay you, but you’ll get two drink tickets and the gig will be really fun and a great way to get your name out there.” Granted, they’re running a business too.

But artists need to carefully consider whether these “opportunities” are really just a “fun” way of getting taken advantage of.

People who justify their cheapness by reminding musicians how much FUN we’re having might not always be ill-intentioned, but they are minimizing or altogether ignoring the hard work and creativity that many artists dedicate to their craft.

Should we stand for it? Do we have any choice? Is this minimization an irreversible trend?

The End Of Standard Practices

At the same time, I would much rather someone actually hear my music, even enjoy my music for free, than not hear it at all. Perhaps a new fan would never have been at my show in the first place, were it not for that little initial theft.

Is this a fair trade-off? Can musicians today demand the same kind of respect and wages as a tradesman, teacher, bartender, neighbor mowing your lawn, or babysitter?

Or, in a world chock-full of talented people who have easy access to affordable recording technology, is it merely the squeaky wheels, the hardest-workers, the buzz-bands, and the lucky few who deserve to be compensated for their commodity… ummm…. I mean “art.”

After all, simple laws of Supply & Demand illustrate that the more music that is available out there, the less that music is worth. And since 0s and 1s require almost no shelf space whatsoever, you cannot determine value of a digital file in the same way as a physical product that requires storage, shipping, distribution, and manufacturing costs-per-unit.

Sure, the internet has democratized music promotion and distribution, allowing indie artists access to a kind of exposure formerly reserved only for major label acts. But as the old paradigm erodes, so too do the standard practices that were tightly controlled by a more consolidated, powerful elite (the major labels, the PROs, etc.). And one of the things that seems to be going out the window is the general view that musicians should be compensated for the very act of making music that people want to consume.

Music Is Worth Something

The new unknown frontier is an exciting and frightening place.

Thankfully, things are tempered by a healthy tension between those hoping for a headlong rush towards free music and the Old Guard who’ve got their feet firmly planted in soil that keeps turning over, and this tension between the extremes has its own moderating power.

Music-makers and music-consumers aren’t being driven off a cliff any time soon. I, for one, though I’m not bold enough to say exactly WHAT the value of a recorded or live musical experience is, am confident that it is worth something.

Proposed Legislation

One group that is currently attempting to combat piracy is called  A2IM. If you’d like to learn more about their efforts, click HERE. Also, we’d urge you to read for yourself the legislation they are supporting and hear your feedback on the matter.
A2IM has a significant voice in the music piracy debate, but we want to listen to your voices as well.

So, what about you? Is piracy an issue for you as an artist? Are we making a mountain out of a molehill? Or is the sky really falling?

Please feel free to leave your thoughts on the issue in the comments section below.-Chris R. at CD Baby

Chris Robley's Author Bio

  • Doug Osborne

    This issue is far too complex to answer in a short, pithy manner, but:

    -from the listeners’ perspective, music has always been free. We thought it was free when we heard it on the radio (few realized that we paid twice as much for flavored sugared soft drinks than we should just so we could pay for the ads that the songs were squished in-between), in movies, on TV (nobody paid to watch The Monkees). We bought a few of our favorites to collect, and a few of us, about 5% of people who heard a song on the radio actually bought a copy) bought everything we could afford and find, in a physical form (vinyl, tape, disc, etc.).

    -from the music industry’s perspective…it’s still 1985! Why aren’t people buying our cassettes?

    …in the ’80s, the music industry said “home taping is killing music” and they went on to have their best years. In the ’90s-today, the industry says “the internet is killing music” and yes, fewer people are buying your product. The print news industry, network TV, etc. – there are many many industries that are down more since ’98 than the music industry.

    More music, and more good music, is being made now than ever before. And it’s being listened-to by more people than ever before. The music industry just has to figure out how to monetize the flow from artist to consumer, and if you don’t believe that the music industry is the dam, you haven’t been paying attention.

  • Doug Osborne

    BTW – piracy? Piracy is a concern (millions and millions of counterfeit and stolen CDs and DVDs are sold on streets, shops, and flea markets) but file trading is not piracy. It’s time we take that misleading word out of circulation.

    Infringement is a federal crime, and a serious one, but it’s not necessarily piracy.

  • http://www.featherscale.com Michael Dolan

    Bear in mind that if this bill is made law, CD Baby itself could be blocked from US users. All it would take is enough (unsubstantiated) complaints about unauthorized cover songs- Does CD Baby verify the copyrights of every song on every album?

    This law contains no definition for what sort of sites would be subject to it, and no provision for due process.

    If you can tell me correctly who will win the 2020 presidential election, I will take you at your word that this law would not be abused by their administration.

    • Chris R. at CD Baby

      Hey Michael,

      We’ve got plenty of protections in place. Firstly, we have copyright/composer/publisher information for every song on our site and stipulated in our Terms of Service agreement that the account holder is solely responsible if any of the provided information is inaccurate. Also, on a case by case basis, we would turn off sample clips and cancel the account of any artist who is violating copyright law. All that being said, I like your healthy skepticism. As for president, I think Justin Timberlake will be old enough to run in 2020. I’m putting my money on JT.

  • Steven

    I think you have to find a good balance. Piracy will always be there, and you don’t want to do nothing about it, but at the same time you don’t want to go overboard and be so heavyhanded.

    I think the best way to do it is in finding creative ways to encourage people to buy if they are on the fence. In Asia, where piracy is basically the norm, artists concentrate on concerts, endorsements, and special pre-order deals (bonus DVD, autograph posters, etc.). It makes more sense to me to put your efforts and energy into positive ways to encourage buying rather than in negative ways to discourage piracy.

    I think it’s similar to how countries deal with trade. The New York Times recently had a good article on how Germany looks to adapt and innovate to promote exporting to China when it comes to trade with China, but the U.S. falls back on the old way of legislation and tariffs to prevent imports from China.

  • http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/music Jordan Lee

    I hear you and it’s a mess out there with the ongoing ways music is lifted from hard-working musicians via the internet.

    Regarding gigs,I’ve found more respect working venues that get you home and in bed by 11 PM. It works for me also to stay clear of bar jobs if at all possible. Drunks will scream all night for Freebird and the rest of the crowd is interested only in getting into each other. The tip jar is a place to drop cigarette ashes and chewing gum. And when you pack u to leavep, your gear and clothes smells like a beer factory.

    As far as organizations looking out for music piracy, it’s an uphill battle but worth the goal. Meanwhile I make a great living in music and look forward to more songwriting and performing to crowds that appreciate my music.

  • http://www.beatlessongwriting.blogspot.com Matt Blick

    Let’s be clear here – you say that “one of the things that seems to be going out the window is the general view that musicians should be compensated for the very act of making music that people want to consume”. But that is not what you address in the article Chris.

    You are NOT talking about musicians being paid for the ACT of making music you are talking about musicians contuning to be paid for music they made last month, last year, last decade or even that their dead relatives made 50 years ago. That is NOT the same thing at all. And in order to get some kind of clarity or consensus in this debate maybe we should be trying to understand why we think that musicians should be rewarded for that. It seems that the answer boils down to “it’s always been that way” but it hasn’t. It wasn’t that way in Bach’s time and it isn’t that way in much of the world right now.

    I do expect to pay someone the going rate to remodel my kitchen. I just don’t expect to pay that person royalties everytime I cook a meal and I certainly don’t expect to pay extra if I invite a friend round to share a meal.

    I’m writing this as a musician who writes and records BTW. But I agree with Doug that the P word needs to be kept out of the debate. There is one demographic group abusing and ripping off musicians and it is not the fans. It’s the labels.

    • Chris R. at CD Baby

      Matt,

      I agree that it would be helpful to all sides in the debate if we agreed on terminology. However, I’d also argue that the “act of making music” is not something that happens solely in the present moment when the creator of a work performs it for an audience. Certainly, you should not be expected to pay the contractor who redid your kitchen every time you cook dinner. But you DID pay him for his service upfront, right? Similarly, when you legally PAY for a CD or MP3, you’re not expected to keep paying every time you listen to that music on your way to work. You pay upfront and then enjoy the new kitchen or music as little or as often as you like. If it were the case that only live experiences with the composer present qualified as events worthy of being paid for, how would non-performing songwriters earn an income?

      I can’t make an argument going back to Bach’s time, when the lucky few in the musical class were supported by patrons, nobility, and the church. But I can say that for well over a hundred years composers were compensated for the recreations of their work. The term “publishing,” in regards to how we currently understand writer/publisher royalties being paid for the various usages and performances (including airplay) of a song, originated because composers were paid a royalty for sheet music sales of their works. So, in this way, the writer IS being compensated for the “act of making music” even though the composer isn’t present. It could be a family in Iowa gathered around the piano at a party. Similarly, the term “mechanical royalty” originated from the idea that composers should be paid for mechanical piano rolls that were manufactured in the early part of the 20th Century. Again, the writer is being paid for an act of music making that they are not there to take part in.

      When our culture shifted from a more musically-literate, communal group of music-makers to a more listener/consumer-oriented bunch, the mode of conveying and translating music changed as well. Sheet music and piano rolls turned into records, tapes, CDs, and MP3s. However, the way I see it, just because the modes of musical delivery have changed doesn’t alter the fact that the composer should be compensated in some way for the initial creation and subsequent recreations of that musical performance. Sheet music is inert until someone sits down to play the notes. An MP3 is inert until a listener presses the play button. Either way, the same basic thing is being experienced. Someone is actively choosing to hear a piece of music that they did NOT create. (Well, I guess technically the person playing the sheet music is playing a more collaborative role in creating the music.) And though I’m not bold enough to say exactly WHAT the value of that musical experience is, I’m confident that it is worth something.

  • Johnson

    Piracy pretty much destroyed my 15 year, 9 album career. It also forced me to get off my lazy backside and stop taking royalties for granted. I’m working harder, I’m more proactive, I’m more responsible, I’m no longer playing the “victim of the industry” card and I’m constantly innovating. By adapting to the numerous alternative revenue streams available these days and rethinking my business model, my music income is close to (but not yet at) 2005 levels.

    Meanwhile, my old record company continues to face financial problems. They regularly lay off employees and steadfastly refuse to adapt regardless of the obvious changes going on in the industry. By the time they close shop, my business will be strong enough for me to continue without them.

    These are different times, but you can still make a good living as a non-performing musician. It is possible.

  • http://www.darianstavans.net Darian Stavans

    Of course the sky is really falling !!!

    The industry is ALMOST …. dead !

    Or we take action, or we better look and put our energy, creativity and talent someplace else.

    Somebody, or all together, made the BIG mistake long time ago, in not building a huge legislation of COPY CONTROL, which could have been made, and now, we are ALL paying the consequences.

    Too expensive … HEAVY PRICE TO PAY !

    What a pity, but it´s TRUE.

  • Rebecca Shreckengast

    Would the rise of internet radio and inexpensive services like rhapsody kill the problem with downloading?

    I know people want to “own” music, but these days, I track through very unscientific means that the inclination is on the decline. I don’t think it’s quite as “cool” to own an album as it once was say, when you had to dive through record stores to find rare tracks. Now everything is a click away.

    Even though I own more vinyl and tapes and CDs than is really healthy, at this point in my life I would be happy to have playlists that, through subscription, link to sites that track “plays” and give cash to artists. I would be especially inclined if there are fringe benefits to me, such as knowledge of new releases, suggestions, letting me know when my favorite band or a new interesting band is coming to town, and free tickets or t-shirts on occasion.

    My guess is that when everyone, including poor students, have instant access to the internet (probably through smartphones and increased 3G coverage) instead of i-pods, then the rip-off downloading will die.

    I like internet radio so much you could call it a sickness. When the quality of the sound is good and there’s no ad and the selection is top notch, I much prefer not to have to be my own DJ. Could artists or “labels” make their own cheap, subscription radio stations?

  • Music Has a Right to Dollars

    you can buy any song now for 99¢. what’s the problem? do it!

    why are people mad that they should actually have to pay for something so enjoyable, and so cheap?

    the only people who argue that music should be free are either greedy consumers or amateur musicians (doing it as a hobby while still living w/their parents, or weekend players with separate full-time jobs/income).

    the argument that people always made copies of music is false: a mixtape on cassette made from a couple friends’ collections in the ’80s is not the same as a master-quality digital song that millions can grab with a click.

    @Matt– the labels aren’t ripping off people, that’s a tired cliche. Those overpriced CDs enabled labels to make a profit on low-run niche music… which is why suddenly a lot of obscure world music, tiny genres etc. started to become available in the 80s. and only 3% of bands ever made money on a label… so the rest were a gamble. and was $18 dollars ever that much? for hours and hours of entertainment over time? (ever pay $10 bucks for a 90 minute movie? 5 bucks for a beer?) as for the ‘pay royalties everytime i listen to it’ –that’s just lazy thinking. buy a cd/mp3 once, and play it forever. that 99¢ ends up being a penny an hour over the months/years of listening to that track.

    as for the “i’ll pay to see them live” comments… google around. there are so many bands having to play out that even they aren’t making money, from big bands to indies. and the “i buy the t-shirt” justification is also bogus. music is not created to flog t-shirts.

    the irony is that the biggest music “fans” (in quotes) are the least supportive of buying music. and the most beholden to big corporations (your expensive ipod that needs to be filled; your giant sony surround sound system.)

    the double-irony is that the music-should-be-free believers are the ones who like to argue that it’s all about the art, not the money…. but they are most hypnotized by consumer culture. if they believed in art, they’d pay for it.

    each individual rationalizes it by thinking ‘it’s only really worth a buck ‘… but of course there’s 5000 other people thinking the same thing about even that small indie band’s music…. but that $5000 dollars in the artist’s pocket could produce another album.

    pay for music. you’ll get better musicians, better music, and more music.

  • http://www.Noisetrade.com/AwakeAwake Awake! Awake! band

    As an indie artist the free movement is great exposure for us. It’s tough though, people often don’t seem to want free music. There’s just so much of it available and of course even though something is free and more accessible, labeling something free lowers perceived quality. We burned tons of cds and handed them out at the state college. To our shock lots of people weren’t interested in even taking them. They contained 3 of our new songs and a short message that said our name and that we’re on facebook. All people had to do was take one and put it in a cd player or computer. Intense marketing has obviously left a waste land of presumptions. Some students thought it was abortion propaganda, some thought it was religious conversion related etc. We eventually got rid of all the discs.

    Check out http://www.Noisetrade.com . It’s a really cool site based out of Nashville TN that Derek Webb started. It’s free for artists to sign up and fans can post a facebook message, Twitter message, put in 5 friends emails and optionally tip the artist in exchange for up to 20 songs. Artists are ranked by number of current downloads/recent not total so it’s quite a fair system. My band Awake! Awake! has ended up on the front page numerous times. It’s surprising. People from all over the US and the world have downloaded our album that we made in my bedroom. It’s great because we’re not really big enough for torrent sites.

    bandcamp.com is also a very helpful site. They have great stats!

  • Sam K

    I have been keenly following this issue for years now and all I know is that as time goes on the issue is becoming muddier and less clear.

    I really though all of this would have been worked out by 2010 and we’d be riding the wave of the “new proven business model”, however the reality is that we are further than ever from being in that place.

  • http://www.wilforbis.com wil

    I absolutely agree we should remove the word “piracy” from this debate. And we should replace it with the obvious word, “stealing.” (Piracy brings to mind parrots and dudes with hooks for hands.) If you accept the basic concepts of intellectual property — or at least accept the fact that most of the world accepts the basic concepts of intellectual property — then it’s pretty obvious that illegally downloading music is stealing. And I’m not pointing fingers, I do it all the time. But I don’t twist my moral arguments into pretzels in an attempt to justify it.

    However, I think the cats out of the bag on that one. Technology has so augmented the process of creating and distributing music that we’re now drowning in it. It’s close to valueless at this point.

    However, money has always been only one component in the reason people make music. The process of creating music is probably one of the more pleasurable ways one can fill their time. And there’s also a social benefit to being a musician — it’s a good way to meet friends and even romantic interests. Few people were ever in this business purely to make money.

  • http://www.mikeperlowin.com Mike Perlowin

    Piracy is more than just the theft of the royalties the artists should receive. It’s also a rip off of the sales figures of the record company that invests in those artists. If the record companies don’t see enough sales, or make enough money, they drop the artists from their roster.

  • http://www.stevencravis.com Steven Cravis

    Our audiences need to be gently reminded about their own value of music, and the impact on us creating it and needing support to continue to create music.

    Recently a panelist asked Jerry Brown and Meg Whitman about how they plan to deal with the shortage of water problem in California. This gently reminded me that water is running out and made me value it more since I depend on it. People depend on music for sanity and happiness. I see almost everyone in society now walking around with earphones on. Many of them must actually see the value of music, even if they are rationalizing to themselves why it ‘should’ be free.

    After reading Jason Robert Brown’s amazing blog about Copyright infringement by teenagers, I decided to gently remind my listeners about the value of (my) music to them. I wrote on one of my bandcamp pages “Hi there! Please consider paying $1.00 for this song. It supports my career as a musician and composer. Can’t afford it or don’t have an online way to pay? No problem – Just enter $0.00 and your email address to subscribe to my StevenCravis.com newsletter. (Don’t worry – If you’re already on my list, you will NOT get double announcements from me if you’re re-entering the same email address.)” I figured I might as well start trying out things, or developing habits that in the long run will bring value back to me, in addition to the ‘being heard’ value. I like bandcamp’s method of emailing the link to the song to the people who select $0 so at least they need to provide a valid email address in order to get the high quality download.

    Recently a fan kindly warned me, in a ‘heads up’ sort of way, about how his IDM “instant download management” software allowed him to get 128kbps mp3s from one of my sites. While I don’t believe it’s a music career killer, it has made me consider putting voice watermarks over my instrumental music, along the lines of “Thank you for listening to music by Steven Cravis. To get this track without my [annoying] voice mixed in with it, simply choose one of the many legal downloading options at StevenCravis.com !” I know it sounds a little nutty, but I’m really going to give this a spin. I like the approach of ‘let’s see what happens when’… with independent music online marketing.

  • http://www.acetonestudio.com Eating Betty

    Give it away for free and sell it simultaneously. Let people decide if they want to buy or get it for free. Those who know how to get it for free will do just that. Those who don’t likely will not listen at all. Keep plugging away at the day job. I personally would like to make a huge fortune from my music, but I can see that that is not going to happen. It was not going to happen 20 years ago and will not happen 20 years from now. It is good that the ‘industry’ is declining. The same thing should and will happen to publishing and the so called art world.

  • http://WeenisMcGeenis! Alec Bridges

    Cooking is an art form and it is fun. Would you go into a restaurante and expect them to give you free food?
    The way I look at it is this. People spend a lot of money to make albums (I spent ~$10,000 on my first album, and that was recording with people that I know really well that give me “friend deals”). People should recognize and respect the fact that musicians put a great deal of time, energy and money into recording music for them to enjoy, so they should pay for it…otherwise people are going to stop spending money on making quality recordings. If people aren’t going o pay, then at some point musicians will probably say “F*** IT! I am going to record stripped down recordings using the voice memo recorder on my iPhone! I’m leaving all the mistakes and I am not paying to have the distortion mastered out of it. Go ahead and download to your heart’s content”.

  • EM

    “-from the listeners’ perspective, music has always been free. We thought it was free when we heard it on the radio (few realized that we paid twice as much for flavored sugared soft drinks than we should just so we could pay for the ads that the songs were squished in-between), in movies, on TV (nobody paid to watch The Monkees). We bought a few of our favorites to collect, and a few of us, about 5% of people who heard a song on the radio actually bought a copy) bought everything we could afford and find, in a physical form (vinyl, tape, disc, etc.).”

    Yes, but that 5% (so you quote) is what was kept the recorded music industry alive- indie or major. That is almost effectively gone now in most parts of the US.

    “-from the music industry’s perspective…it’s still 1985! Why aren’t people buying our cassettes?”

    I don’t think anyone really *wants* to buy cassettes(lol)— or expects anyone to pay for recorded music these days. A significant collective of the major media even has been telling us for years that “music should be free”. There is an agenda behind this ethos that is just as, if not much larger than the major label of yesteryear.

    “…in the ’80s, the music industry said “home taping is killing music” and they went on to have their best years. In the ’90s-today, the industry says “the internet is killing music” and yes, fewer people are buying your product. The print news industry, network TV, etc. – there are many many industries that are down more since ’98 than the music industry.”

    You’re right there…

    “More music, and more good music, is being made now than ever before. And it’s being listened-to by more people than ever before. The music industry just has to figure out how to monetize the flow from artist to consumer, and if you don’t believe that the music industry is the dam, you haven’t been paying attention.”

    I would just say “more music is getting made”, or “more music is slightly visible because of the internet”. I haven’t heard much that I’d actually call “better”, but that depends on what areas of music you are traditionally listening to as well. I think to argue that music is “better” now than then is kind of silly, as just as many people would tell you that modern banal, nichey-but-commercial tripe has made them go back to discovering the past. I am one of those- still primarily mining the past because even a lot of older but unknown stuff just seems better than the modern rash of indie bands or worn out older rockstars. The only thing I agree with you on is that more people hear it- also, more people hear things once and turn it off than ever before- market satuaration and overburdening the listener is another thing the internet is heavily guilty of. Who ever is the loudest and most commercially persistent wins- not the big creatives or talents. It’s a marketer’s world, and we are all responsible for bringing that reality to ourselves by not taking enough of our own control of our own lives- making decisions for ourselves above and beyond not only what the media tells us, but above and beyond even what our friends tell us.

    -EM

  • http://www.kapelye.com Ken Maltz

    One could write endlessly on this subject, but the truth is very simple: people illegally copy, pirate and steel music because they can. Technology has made it easy to do and society gladly turns its back on enforcemnt.

    Musicians who perform without compensation are only saying by their actions that their music is not worth paying for. If we would stick together, we could put an end to this.

    Enough.

  • http://www.idlewildrecordings.com David S. Sharp

    As an independant artist and label, I’ve spent many years learning to play a number of instruments. I’ve studied my own and other ethnic cultures and music as well as invested time in improvisation, composition and arrangement. Finding work to attract good musicians to help me fullfill contracts and engagements. Paying side musicians to play on the recordings. It breaks my heart to have the Piracy issue where our recordings are taken by unscrupulous people and yet the other side of the issue is to take out the vengence of the music industry on individual musicians that are not the problem. Many small labels owners like myself feel squeezed in the middle by presure from both directions. I also spent many years in art college and working as a graphic artist. I’ve had my graphic work taken and challanged as well as taking many years to learn my craft.

    Hope for a better future,

    David S. Sharp
    Idlewild Recordings L. L. C.

  • http://www.alexhirsch.com Alex Hirsch

    Here’s the way I look at it. I am a working musician in his mid 40′s, been thru touring, album sales, etc, not huge but plenty large enough to have an ego about myself and my art. The reality is this. Music penetrates many different societies and socioeconomic divisions within those societies, because it is played loud enough for others to hear. There is no painting loud enough for the next house to see it thru walls. In fact there is no art that seeks out people thru the ear, other than music, so comparing it to other arts is ridiculous. The musician has a hard life, and it is harder now, because the art they are trying to sell, is being stolen by people who hear it for the first time, and like it. Those are the same type of people that used to drop 20 bux for a record. (The fact that record companies charged way too much for music for many years, shouldn’t make the public think the musician was to blame for that.) The reality is this. Record companies owe the general public millions of dollars and until some of that gets paid back in hard cash, people like me, who do their thing entirely on their own, (with no promotion other than their music, and no record companies to pull in people via large dollar ad campaigns and precise piggy back live tours), will suffer almost catastrophic losses. I know if it wasn’t for other income and work I do on the side, I never would be able to survive and practice anything, let alone take years to make quality records with real people who play real instruments, THE WAY I TRY TO DO ALL MY LIFE. Come check out my music and videos and see if you think I do good stuff. If so, please buy it from me at http://www.keywinsproductions(dot)com. I only charge 3 bux for entire CD’s and I get the money in my pay pal to do things like pay rent, eat and buy toilet paper. (Thanks to you people, I have sold more than 20 thousand records in 20 years.
    But don’t get me wrong, I thoroughly love life and the people who cherish the fact that we exist at all. Anyone who isn’t grateful everyday can kiss my royal ass.

  • http://www.bonepoets.com Christopher Bingham

    I’m sad that cdbaby would support such a misguided bill as COICA. As someone else pointed out, cdbaby could easily be shut down based one ALLEGATIONS of significant infringement. Given the pro RIAA stance of the Obama administration, it’s closer to possible than I think you’ve taken into consideration.

    If A2IM is not an astroturf organization for “indies,” I will be very surprised. Look at the number of “former” major label artists on the site. How many shell companies or joint venture agreements between one of these “indies” and BMG does it take to be an “indy?”

    I urge people to read up on this legislation as well as some of the conversations going on at Techdirt http://www.techdirt.com/index.php as an example of people who are making money with the combination of Connecting with Fans and giving them a Reason to Buy as examples of where music on the internet is going regardless of laws designed to protect the big gatekeepers.

    File sharing is not theft or “piracy.” File sharing is the radio play most of us haven’t gotten because we don’t have the cash or the clout that the majors have. If I make a copy of a shovel that I see in your garage, using my own tools and effort, you still have the shovel. You haven’t lost anything, because no one can own an idea. It’s a physical impossibility.

    The numbers that the RIAA has used to try to convince Congress regarding how much business they’ve lost have been debunked. (Sorry musichasarighttodollars – you’re simply wrong on that data) Every download is NOT a lost sale. The most important bit of data that they don’t want you to know is that filesharers BUY more music than most people. Think about it for a minute – who is buying your music, people who are excited enough to share it or people who don’t care what they’re listening to?

    I’m releasing my 7th record in the next month and it’s all up on my website for free. I experimented for six months with putting clips vs whole songs on my site and my sales plummeted. I put them back up and they eventually got back to what they were.

    The internet has made instant worldwide distribution a reality. Every kid who can hold down a summer job can buy a home studio and make a decent sounding record if they have the chops. In 2005 35,000 cd length titles were released in the USA. In 2009, that number was up to 115,000. The purpose of copyright is to “promote the progress of science and the useful arts.” No one can seriously argue that less people are writing and promoting music because of downloading.

    The idea that punishing your fans is going to get them to like your music is pretty illogical. See the image of the RIAA as example. What’s killing the majors is the re-emergence of the singles market. I really like Shakira’s “Hips Don’t Lie” – the rest of her stuff not so much. (I found out by buying her record used, cause I won’t give money to the majors.) If I want to change formats I don’t have to buy my record collection for a third time. All that adds up to not so much money going to major labels and a little money coming to me.

    Only a VERY small percentage of musicians has EVER been able to sit on their hands after writing the “hit” and living off the royalties. The guy that builds you house doesn’t get a percentage of the resale of your house, why do we as writers think that we get a piece every time someone hears our stuff? Are we owed everytime a fan sings our song in the shower?

    You can’t own an idea. You can be granted a monopoly on the chattel that is sold around that idea, but eventually if we’re very lucky, our music will become part of the cultural commons. Give me 100,000 people downloading my stuff for free this year and I’ll make that into a living. If COICA shuts down the websites that are making that possible I’m limited to what I can do on the road.

    Shame on you CDbaby, for buying into the monopoly paradigm. If the majors could have shut down mp3s, none of us would be having this conversation. We’re really lucky they didn’t.

    • Chris R. at CD Baby

      A2IM definitely has a loud voice on one side of the issue. You’re cogently stating the other side. I hope it is clear that the point of this piece was to foster some debate and hear your opinions, NOT to explicitly endorse this particular legislative bill. (Though, certainly, we wanted to call attention to it.)

  • http://www.shirleycason.com Shirley Cason

    Hi all :)

    I’ve been reading music industry blogs like this for years, and this BLOG is good !

    Being that said, I get thousands of people each day to my website listening to all my albums online. Sales are good. However, I have to agree, with those comments above in this blog, that creating music is not about selling t-shirts… Yes I agree Bach create music for the sake of it… having an accounting background though I am constantly trying to figure out how to create a living that is equal to a corporate day job. 150 k plus. That’ the nut to crack for most of us ! LOL

    Will most of us musician have the good fortunes of Madonna ? Probably not Would we be happy earning 100 k plus with selling our music online? HELL YES!

    So… I be willing to talk to anyone on the business model to achieve that goal. Testing, building a website etc. It seems that the only people on the net making real money are those who HELP musicians distibute their music around the globe online. (i.e Napster, CDbaby, Bandcamp, Tunecore, Topspin, Bandcamp, etc ) and YES… they deserve every penny they make helping us indies!

    I believe the real question is.. how to make a good living selling our music online, selling sheet music, performing in concerts in average size venues. Exposure is a numbers game that equal sales. It doesn’t seem being on Twitter, Facebook, ILike, etc is really cutting the mustard and getting us to the end game for most recording musicians !

    I do believe that there is a model that will work for the independent recording / performing musician. This is a fun puzzle to figure out !

    Thanks for reading my 2 cents !

    Shirley ~:~
    http://www.shirleycason.com
    Music for a Peaceful World

  • clayton

    this entire issue is so simple. Let’s all stop trying to pretend that taking something that someone else created is right. stop saying that independent artists and labels need to keep up with technology. your argument is silly, and juvenile. thee is no justification for what you are doing, you are a thief.
    stop calling it sharing, it’s not. the problem, or a major problem is internet anonymity. if 1 in 50 people were held accountable for “sharing” copyrighted music, i guarantee that supporters would be flushing their hard drives down the toilet within minutes. the simplicity, and the void of any consequence has spawned such a pathetic sense of entitlement by those who choose not to pay for music. it’s these same people that would stumble on a touring band in a club, walk past their merch table, and go home to find a way to get the tracks for free. and as far as the internet is concerned, it’s the same idea that allows kiddie porn. NO, stealing music is not the same as downloading kiddie porn. BUT, if either of the anonymus providers were held responsible, it would decrease significantly.
    free promotion for more free music…? so that the band can go on to do what, spend more free time recording in a free studio, or on free programs? or, wait for some hip director, or better yet, some major corporation use their song to hawk their newest product?
    then they are a hit, because “selling out” is not only excused, but admired and desired.
    truth is, the band will make their tours shorter, so that they can get back to their day jobs, so they can cover the credit card bill for the gas and hotels and instruments. then after their means are exhausted, they will stop. all without the ability to have been FAIRLY given a shot.
    i’ve had this argument with business owners, “respected” in the NY music scene, where they’ve basically said, tough luck. that bands should learn to utilize the new technology, and adapt. in fact, that he was proud to take music for free. yes, it’s all done for the sake of art, well, why is his personal library juke box pay-to-play.
    if the cost was even just having to inform the band or label that you did just in fact download their product for free, none of you would do it. call ecstatic peace, and tell thurston moore that you really like the new awesome color album, and you just downloaded it for free. then just provide your name and address. e-mail mac at Merge and simply say I am joe ham and i just got Superchunk’s back catalog off of rapidshare and you can see why they are so loved, thanks for making that for me.
    Chuck d’s BS rant about how thieving has been part of the record industry since the blues were stolen etc made my stomach turn. because it doesn’t make this right. bands used to be able to survive if they were good, and people like them. even then, it was a constant battle. i see too many accomplished, critically acclaimed artists disband bc they just couldn’t afford it these days. regardless of having a following.
    it’s wrong. stop. there are ways to sample a band without purchasing. this entitlement to own is absurd.
    i don’t want to hear a damn thing about spelling or syntax here.

  • http://www.vincenthayes.com Vincent Hayes

    Wow, it’s about time this issue started to get some momentum again. I actually recently posted a topic about this on my blog this summer, as this issue is greatly affecting me as we speak. In march my band released a new disc of original material on my own label. We had Discmakers do the pressing and we use CDbaby, amazon, and iTunes as our primary online distributors. In May our disc began to get airplay on about 100 blues radio stations and we made the national Living Blues Chart in June & July. At first the radio play was driving people to Cdbaby to buy our disc, and each week sales picked up until they just dropped off all together, though at the exact time we were receiving the most airplay. One day I was doing a search for our band name and disc when I saw a link to a torrent site. I checked it out and sure enough they were offering free downloads of our entire disc including artwork. Within 48 hours the file and links had regenerated onto more than 30 more sites, all of which were coming up in the first 6 pages of Google results. By the end of the week my CDbaby sales (including downloads) were at “0″ per day. I began an intensive campaign to get the files removed and the links taken down and although most complied within 24 hrs, many did not, and the ones who did take them down, left the original pages (and headings with my band name on it), which still were showing up in search results. Also, most of the sites who did take the links and/or files down allowed other users to re-post our information within a few days or weeks because they say they have no control over each user’s postings, though they will remove them once they are up. I contacted BMI and thought my membership would allow me to get some help. Nope. I left messages on the machine at the RIAA and explained my problem, but never received a response.

    I couldn’t (and still can’t) believe it that my band’s hard work, money and struggles to get this Cd finished was now in vain and being ripped off by an untouchable web of file sharing sites who were not only taking what few download and Cd sales I was getting and sharing my music and even the CD art without my consent. Thankfully I register Copyright on all of my original material, but that hasn’t helped me one bit with these guys. Now here is the clincher-

    One of these sites, Israbox actually posts a counter next to each file showing how many times it has been downloaded. This site now has had over 49,000 downloads of my disc since July. At $10 per album download on iTunes or CDbaby, that’s $490,000, or half a million dollars worth of illegal downloads of my music! Do I think that everyone of these people would have actually paid for it if it weren’t free? No. But the fact is that there is no way to judge that percentage, and the bottom line is that $490,000 of potential profit has been stolen out of my hands because so many people are convinced that music should be free! I’m not on a major label. I own the small indie label our disc is on, and we paid for the entire creation of this disc from studio time through production, advertising and promotion, and we are still paying. All together our disc has cost over $10,000 to produce, and we are barely breaking even, even with the disc now being played on Sirius/XM Radio regularly.

    I never expected to get filthy rich from music, and yes, it IS fun-most of the time, and it IS great to say “I love what I do”, but it’s still MY work, MY energy, OUR money and creativity, and I’ve sacrificed any sens of a “normal life” or financial stability to be able to do what I love FOR A LIVING! THAT’S the key…THIS IS MY LIVING. It’s truly amazing that with today’s technology, an independent artist can record, press and promote a new CD to the world on their own, but file sharing (which IS piracy, because it allows exact studio quality duplicates to be made and re-distributed by anyone, which IS piracy at the bottom line) sites like Rapidshare, Israbox, etc, know EXACTLY what they are doing and what they are doing is robbing hard working original artists from being able to make any money online at all. We aren’t talking about dubbing an occasional CD for a friend, we are talking about huge websites with super fast servers whose very purpose is to share copywritten material as fast as possible for FREE between people who care not one once about the people behind their music, movie or software. It’s pure selfishness and as far as I can see it serves no purpose for gaining legitimate fans or making legitimate CD sales. And contrary to what anyone says, “No, Joe Blow download junkie is NOT going to go buy the actual CD and support the artist if he likes his freebie.” Anybody know ANYONE who actually does this?

    Great topic! Thanks for allowing me to share my experience.

  • j randolph buildinghead

    There is no DRM and no legislation in the world that will stop file-sharing from occurring. Let’s just be clear on that. Whether or not musicians feel they should be compensated for their recorded work, the days of selling and distributing little bits of plastic and making a quarter on each sale are done. Since the vast majority of musicians never made a dime on that model, it seems what many of us are really upset about is the death of the dream that we were going to be the next millionaire Platinum selling artist.

    What’s more, the same industry that wouldn’t give 99.9% of us the time of day back when business was booming is now pushing for draconian law enforcement to prop up their dying business model, not because they care so much about artists, but because the gravy train is over. As an artist, the idea of prosecuting my fans for listening to my music seems like a pretty doomed approach, but to the big copyright holders it apparently seems sensible.

    Musicians throughout history have been paid for live performances and that isn’t going away. And recorded music continues to be sold using the new media, but with the understanding that many listeners will not pay to hear it, and the artist must offer them other avenues to spend money to support the artist’s work.

  • Lee R.

    Hey Chris R.,

    You seem to recognize that that guy at the gig who told you he downloaded the album for free might not have been there to see you live, and henceforth PAY to see you.

    And that’s a positive monetary result for you in terms of someone sharing your music online, isn’t it? And who’s to say what might have come of him seeing you live (telling friends, they buying your music, or coming to see you, etc).

    I don’t see that a ‘trade-off’. It’s a benefit.

    And it has nothing to do with the amount of music that’s the problem – it’s the amount of technology, as music has been around alot longer.

    If anything, technology will become so out of control that we’ll be forced to return to the days of old where minstrels carried their catalogs in their heads and would play for food or shelter, traveling around, sharing and writing songs and creating history.

  • http://www.spiral-m.de matt c

    Everyone should experiment and most importantly find that place where integrity is still intact. At the end of the day, if we are healthy and have enough time and money to be able to create good music regularly, enough for our souls – that is for me success. The obstacle we are up against to get to that point and beyond into wider recognition is only a symptom of a wider cultural illness: people have a shallow value system and want to consume without gratitude. I’m generalizing here but we live in a consumer society – humans made it and only they (including us composers, artists) can change it – parasitic behaviour must be changed on the inside and then there is a chance to really inspire others to discover what is real value.

    I believe it is better to focus on our own attitudes and motivations which come out in the music directly or subliminally anyway, than the logistical strategy. Once you are true to yourself and start radiating positive energy, you’ll attract followers. Although music dominated by bitterness, anger, hopelessness and dependency attracts a lot of followers who identify with that vibe, it doesn’t in my mind in the long run invoke gratitude, responsibility, selflessness, healing etc. that we need for good art to prosper

  • http://www.myspace.com/c90newzealand C90

    Imagine the scenario of a new band just starting out. Why not make an EP (5 songs) and sell at gigs for $5 (enough to cover costs) Get the songs played on local student radio and offer free MP3s for your fans to download this way they may be encouraged give your music a chance. In time if the music is good and you get some interest they will be able to charge a reasonable door sale at gigs. Save the gig money to record an album and market that in the traditional way either independently, CD Baby or with a label. If the fans really like you and your music they will be prepared to pay for a higher quality product than MP3 (especially those with decent high fi systems!) They also get the benefit of owning your cover artwork, or anything else you can include with the cd (lyrics, a DVD etc). When I used to borrow friend’s records and tape them onto cassette, I got to know whether I liked the music or not. If I fell in love with the band I would save up and buy the album. Why is downloading MP3s any different? I am not professional and might sound a little simplistic but to me it doesn’t make any sense to charge for MP3′s especially when band like Radio Head release whole albums on the net for free. If a band is really successful (number 1 hits etc) they will make more money via airplay than CD/Mp3 sales anyway. So my view is to forget worrying about MP3 pirating. Use it as a marketing opportunity. Explore other ways to make money from music and most importantly get out and have fun.

  • http://www.bonepoets.com Christopher Bingham

    Clayton – copying is not “theft.” That’s why it’s been called “infringement” since the Constitution was written. Copyright is a temporary monopoly on the MARKET for your idea. The ability to copy and share something has been made easier with technology, but that doesn’t make copying “theft.”

    A download does not equal a sale. It is merely the way people can hear your music. The notion that what used to be called “opportunity cost” is being called theft by some folks is testament to The RIAA/MPAA marketing machines. Talk about “entitlement culture” – “You mean I don’t get to make a million bucks and have my artist owe me $15k at the same time anymore? STOP THIEF!”

    It would be funny if it wasn’t really about the most unscrupulous businessmen keeping the people who really do the creation out of the market.

    Filesharing is FEEDING musicians, not starving them. But I tell you what – you send a bunch of mail out to your fans calling them thieves and tell me if you sell more records. It would be an interesting experiment. Ask the RIAA how that is panning out for them.

  • http://www.tonymckenzie.com tonym

    If you invented something – say an iPod (good idea) then you made a few million (units that is). You have them stock piled and then start to sell them in a big way. Who here thinks its all ‘OK’ to rip off that design, put them on the street and give the original patent holder nothing for stealing his sales?

    No one RIGHT? If you do you really are deluded.

    So, tell me why when you invent a piece of music then that is different? It is not different and you have a RIGHT to income from your work, whether it’s now, in 20 years or in 50 years.

    The piracy thing – well maybe you have all seen the ipod rip offs from China? Maybe not. One thing they are is exceptionally bad.

    And usually thats what you get with pirated films – something really bad.

    Now lets move on. Music is different. MP3 saw to that. Its small file reasonable quality and can be copied easier than typing this.

    So, read above copying is everywhere. It still steals money from the ‘inventor’ of the work – but in music it can decimate (and is doing) the industry.

    Now imagine – if someone just came along with a method of reducing the quality as it’s haphazardly transferred over the net – not possible? wrong.

    OK copy music – get crap at the other end – nice – thats what I say. You dont need the law changing, you need the methodology changing. No messing about.

    Just nice simple kick some butt and stop them.

    And you know what? if that little ditty was made possible tomorrow morning – I think most serious musicians would agree with it.

    Don’t keep on feeding this BS all over the web. Piracy, copying etc is as crappy as it gets if its your stuff they are copying.

    Stream a few hundred thousand listens (also copoied) for your $10 and this is todays alternative.

    So – you’re not in it for the money. Yep, thats right, there were fools around in the 60′s like that too. And you know what, no one even remembers who they were – you just know the ones today because they looked after business – as Led Zep. OH you HAVE heard of them? fancy that.

    Because all the boys and girls on here that say money does not matter for all the work of the author and musician are basically saying that they don’t care about not just the money for payment to those people, but the whole legacy of music created thats a pretty tall statement to try and back up. You can’t!

    Piracy is exactly that. Theft. Don’t try and water it down.
    Thats exactly what it is.

    T H E F T.

    Good. Now I’ve got that off my chest go and download some more – sorry to have disturbed you.

  • Tech Man

    When an artist puts in time and money to create an album of music, it is in fact a product, which the artist will (most of the time) attempt to market and sell.
    This is the business part. In this case, selling the product (CDs) is an integral part of the success of that business no matter how big or how small.
    Marketing strategies such as releasing a couple of songs free for people to have is great and it works. Sometimes too well. As some artists begin making whole albums available for free, the effect rarely is one of an increase of people buying music.

    When any artist (musician, writer, film maker, painter, etc.) discovers that their work is everywhere due to people taking it for free and hearing comments from the field like, “Oh, no thanks, I can burn a copy from my friend or get it for free from….”, it may cause the artist to become discouraged. It isn’t that their dream of making millions is ruined; it’s the essence of giving creatively from one’s heart and soul, and finding only takers. In other words, there isn’t a fair exchange. In fact, there is no exchange at all.

    Except for the “exposure” which, in some cases isn’t even credited to the artist. And receiving 90 or so cents for a song every now and then can almost be looked at as an insult.

    The real issue is the effect that happens or is happening from all of this.
    More and more people want or expect an artist to make their work available for free. The artists cannot make a living with this arrangement unless they are independently wealthy, or now doing for a hobby.
    This isn’t good or bad. It is just what the situation is at this time.
    We’ll have to wait to see how the rest unfolds.

  • http://www.tonymckenzie.com tonym

    Clayton is EXACTLY right!

  • Gaylord

    Upload a Song to a distributor, than they through, their channels sell the song on the internet, then the buyer pays with a credit card and, now who has the complete and true record that you can Buck against the buy that works with you on the internet. The Credit Card Companies , have the complete record of sells of the seller of your song. Check them out to see if they(the Credit Card Companies show you more money out going for your song at the Credit Card Companies) then your agency that reports to you , your sales. Both records should be the same. If the reported sells don’t add up to the Credit Card Company report, then I suggest you see your lawyer…but don’t jump to conclusions until you have got all the correct Credit Card Companies Reports on all your songs. First find out how many Credit Card Companies are used by the internet seller of your music. ( Also internet groups , such as paypal ).
    Have a good one
    God, Democracy, and Fair Internet Practices ( Accountability )

  • J. X. Rodriguez

    My take on all of this is that most of you are totally misunderstanding the situation.

    Recorded music and other media are like anything else: industrial technology determines the modes and costs of production and distribution. Before the middle of the 19th century the costs were virtually infinite — a performance could be replicated only by an extremely talented human in the right place at the right time. I believe the first successful recording instrument was the player piano. 160 years or so later, the modes of production and distribution are electronic, and the costs are virtually zero, most of them paid up front by the owners and renters of computer equipment and digital transmission services.

    This means that the 20th-century models of production and distribution, although they are still staggering around, are effectively dead. It also means that copyright and other forms of ‘IP’ are dead. There is nothing you can do to keep people from sharing media with their friends or anyone else, regardless of the most draconian laws you, or rather big corporations with lots of lawyers and bought legislators, can do. The tendentious moralizing about this that goes on is, of course, even worse than useless.

    If you want to make money in this new world, you have to go at it in new ways. I think people are beginning to figure this out, and that I don’t need to go into the details. But please, please, please, spare us all the Calvinistic self-righteousness — no one really listens to it. If you don’t want your art to be in the world, keep it to yourself. If you let it out the door, it’s going to have a life of its own, and if anyone thinks it’s any good, people are going to copy it and pass it around for the simple reason that they can. In the future, there are going to be more paths, rather than fewer. This is just the way it is. If you don’t like it, get out of the music business and go to law school — there is still lots of money in the corps(e) to pay you for false hope. It’ll probably last another ten years or so.

  • http://www.roserobbinsonline.com Rose Robbins

    This is an issue with many facets, as all the carefully-thought-out arguments indicate. There are few businesses you can compare with being a musician, because unlike food or products, music is not “consumed”. It isn’t gone, used up, lessened or depreciated by people listening to it.

    I do not gig for free, unless it I am donating to a very good cause and it’s a one-time thing. Many jobs are “fun”, and no one expects people to work them for free, so I think that point should be moot.

    I sell my music through CD Baby and through iTunes, and after a single has been out for awhile, I put a full-length version on my website or a social networking site so that people can hear it for free. I don’t make free downloading an option, but I realize that people can get around that and I really don’t care.

    Here’s why I don’t care: until someone comes up with some totally brilliant way to keep it from happening, people are gonna steal songs. But the people who steal music probably won’t buy it anyway, right? I don’t do it, but I have made mix CDs for friends, from CDs that I bought, so that they could hear certain tunes altogether without buying all the CDs themselves, so in a way that’s the same thing.
    But again, the person WASNT GOING TO go buy all those CDs anyway. I haven’t lessened the supply of songs, or worn them out, or eaten them. They’re still there.
    The only thing that happened is that someone heard a song who might not have otherwise heard it.
    I’m sort of okay with that.

    I really like the guy’s idea about putting a “watermark” on his tunes….but I’m sure, once there’s software available to do that, there will be people figuring out how to get around it.

  • http://www.airplaydirect.com/curtismacdonald Curtis Macdonald

    I MUST be famous! My music is ALL over the Torrents!

  • http://www.tfy5k.com Bob FiveThousand

    Ugh…

    As I say whenever this debates comes up: “Get over it”.

    I’ve been at this racket since the early 90′s. Close to 20 years now. And you know what? I have no problem what-so-ever with people downloading my music for free. None.

    If you are going to publish your music digitally, it’s going to be downloaded and shared for free. Accept and embrace it, because it is not going away. Ever.

    It’s not “stealing” as you (nor anyone else) is being deprived of the original product. It’s still there, you still have it, it’s still yours.

    If somebody commissions you to write a song, then by all means demand payment. But if you create something on your own without anyone having asked you to do it, be happy ANYONE finds it agreeable enough to give you some money.

    Play shows, sell merch, sell access, do whatever you can think of to make money. But do not try to demand that people pay for something they did not ask you to make and is freely accessible after spending a couple of minutes on Google.

    The business of making music has (once again) changed. Adapt or get out.

    –bob 5k

  • http://www.myspace.com/theidgets Shawn Bergen

    I wonder what Marshall McLuhan would say about this. He’s the guy who coined the phrase “the medium is the message”. Perhaps we should be asking not whether independent music will survive but what sort of independent musicians will thrive in the current environment. What it seems to come down to is the ability to self promote, ie. to network. If that’s the case then there must be a Kurt Cobain calling it quits every day of the week because talent and social skills often do not go hand in hand. In order for a brilliant but awkward artist to get his music out there he needs to hire someone to do what he can’t, and in order for that to be possible his agent has to have some hope of making money for all of his efforts. I’m not suggesting that all the brilliant ones are reclusive but I think we should consider the ramifications of an industry in which only those with winning personalities survive. Just a thought.

  • http://blog.ieatpants.com brandon

    >Christopher Bingham at October 6, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    i was getting pretty annoyed reading so many asinine things and then i came across this fellow’s post… you took the words right out of my mind grapes.

    it’s rare to read a rational, cogent, and coherent argument in a comments section.
    well done.

  • http://sayvee.com Nico Boesten

    I think trying to enforce the law (piracy) is kind of like nailing a fart to a wall. Even the big label artists are pirating music (see Justin Timberlake’s comment last week http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/stories/093010timberlake ). Trent Reznor has some really creative ideas on this whole topic – there seem to be a lot of people in the industry that believe sooner or later all music will be free. Musicians are just forced to be more creative with how they make money & monetizing other ways (live shows, special packages etc.) because unless a magic ball of guilt drop on the conscience of all the pirates at sea, I don’t see the trend turning any time soon. But that’s just me. In the meantime, I’ll do a combo of selling and giving away my music.

    PS – anyone want 1 of my 1800 cds leftover in my basement?

    Nico
    http://sayvee.com
    web fuel for artists

  • Steve

    I’m tired of pirates. They’re all like boarding my schooner, and stealing all my sterling silver…

  • http://www.myspace.com/peadesongs Michael J Peade

    I have a friend who has over a 1,000 songs on his iPod. He didn’t pay for one of them.

    The music industry needs to stand up against all of this. The story here just further indicates, in general, the music industrys thoughts and their non-action on this whole issue. Its like its now just part of the music industry. The statements of , “its good to know that my music is out there” is just a smokescreen, and then further an exceptance of the issue.

    The worst thing out of all of this, is that the ISP’s are making billions and and they are the ones that should be putting that profit back to the artist, the writer, the creater. Music has value and always will.

    If you don’t pay for it, you are stealing.

    I always say this to anyone that disagrees….. How would you like to put in a days work, and then hand me over your pay. I bet you they wouldn’t like it.

  • http://www.myspace.com/phantompilots Rob C.

    Clayton, I agree with you 100%.
    I gave my friend CS a copy of the first Pilots CD and he told me burned it for his freind A and that A loved it. Dude… support the little guy. I ended up breaking even on that release plus a little, but not enough to pay for a 2nd physical CD release. An ex co-worker of mine CV bought one from me, loaded it into iTunes on the shop computer, and was actually encouraging other employees to burn copies of it… “It’s so great!” CV is a visual artist and clearly does not get it. CV got the stink-eye from me for weeks after that.
    My best plan for album #2 was online only release, and I went to CD baby and enabled digital distribution for the first album. That way I would be able to recoup costs faster and not feel bad becuase I didn’t reach the goal of breaking even. I make music becuase I love it. I buy music becuase I love it and I prefer supporting the local indie store (or in other cities) vs. buying it on line.
    Music is not free, and people should be able to fork over 1 dollar for a tune they heard in a movie, at a party, etc. “It’s only worth a buck’ ?? Then pay a buck! Don’t be so friggin cheap!
    I am especially riled about this as I lost my job over a year ago, went to school for a career change, and here it is 2 months after graduation and I don’t have a job yet. Applied at 18 different locations, and not one call for an interview.
    So if 20 people paid to download one of my albums, I would be able to put food on the table for one week. Album #3 is in the works. I will not stop recording and releasing my music. I have had many people tell me how much they love it. Nuff said.

  • http://johnbarney.com/ John Barney

    There’s another aspect that no one’s talked about – it’s the great feeling you get when you find out that someone actually paid for your music. They went to work, earned money, and then thought that your music was of value and put out some hard cash. I used to get a thrill from someone buying a single download from my CD. Artists of all ilk should be allowed to make a living if they are good enough – throughout history art has been valued. I sincerely hope that musicians don’t give up – but I have to say I’m personally less inclined to spend my own money producing a new CD knowing that I probably won’t break even. I always say – I create music because I have to – it’s how I’m wired – but I have a career outside of music that affords me the opportunity to record and play music. I’m from L.A. – and don’t be fooled about making money by playing live. Yes, for those that work really hard to get a solid following – it’s possible to survive for awhile – but most likely it’s not going to be longterm. Most bands playing in bars in So CA are lucky to walk away with a few free beers. There are too many bands willing to play for free – including myself. Again – I do it because of the great high – but I don’t depend on it to live. We need to keep developing ways to support our artists – humanity demands it – who wants to live in an artless world.

  • http://www.anne-liselarsen.com Anne-Lise

    Yes, talent and craft should be rewarded for its own sake. Rising to the top is no sign of greatness. I just heard of a CEO who has spent his entire adult life working to get to the top of business, but has now decided to become an “artist”. Because he’s been able to buy his way in, he’s already making waves on the scene. I listened to his music. I think it’s rubbish. He can’t sing, he might be able to write a bit of prose here or there, but he’s no musician as far as I can tell, yet people are raving about him… all because he has the money to make it talk. He’s got the money to pay the hype-mobile and that really sucks. He’s achieved more in 6 months because he’s had huge bank roll, than I have in 20 years.

    On to reward for merit. Yes, artists should be paid, even if they’re not famous. I’ve been a practicing musician and studying music for 30 years. That’s longer than any doctor or lawyer has ever spent at university, yet, noone would ever consider not paying for a doctor’s time. They’re not famous either obviously.

    I think the whole culture of expecting free music needs to be changed. I don’t know how. I love music. It’s all I’m good at, so why should I be expected to only do it for the love of it? You wouldn’t expect a teacher, a bus driver or a housepainter to do what they’re skilled in for the love of it. It’s such a bizarre concept and I don’t know how it got started, or how to change it.

  • http://www.myspace.com/alexbrubakerguitar Alex Brubaker

    While I could write for hours on this matter, I’ll keep it brief.

    I believe the “goodness” of music piracy depends on the intent of the pirate. If you are “stealing” my music and hoarding it to yourself, not promoting me or thinking about what I am contributing to music, then yes, I believe this is wrong. However, if you steal my album somewhere and come to shows, tell your friends about me, share your stolen album with your friends who will promote my music, then it’s a great thing.

    Personally, I download stuff illegally a fair amount. However, I promote those bands – whenever they’ve got a show near someone I know, I tell that person to go to their show. I will also buy albums from artists I see live. I believe that the intimate setting of seeing a band live merits paying for their music to remember the experience, in addition to paying for it for the music. On that matter, I think that you’re a complete tool if you go to a show, don’t buy any CDs, but, instead, go home and torrent the album.

  • http://www.CDBaby.com Auralis

    Hello, I am a 66-year-old composer / arranger and former big-band and session trombonist. I write modern Easy Listening Orchestral CD music. I am a published sheet music composer. The British Performing Right Society and the American equivalent were set up to collect the royalties from performances and arrangements of the sheet music and Vinyl Records, CD’s bought by music artists. Before this, there was no collection agencies worldwide. These copyright agencies were set up to collect (‘police’) the music venues and record producers including broadcasting and movies and it worked up to the invention of the Internet. Now we have returned to a period similar to the pre-1920′s period where composers, bands, song writers had their music stolen. These agencies were set up to eliminate these infringes of copyright and it worked, but today we have a more pervasive situation that is more difficult to ‘police’. Professional music such as song writing has never been free. Songwriters have always received enumeration for their efforts. A song album is like a book. If an artist takes time and money to record and produce a CD Album, he should be able to sell it on the Internet without being ripped-off or having his music stolen or downloaded illegally. There is nothing wrong with giving away a ‘taster’ – one song without payment in order to advertise or sell an album, but to have all the songs in that album illegally ripped-off is criminal. There are thousands of hard working young bands who have sunk in a lot of their own hard earned money and time into producing, marketing their own albums who are having their music illegally downloaded on the Net. A new band could spend $5000 on recording an album, manufacturing and producing the covers and then put it on the Internet for sale. They then discover that they are not making any money from the sales, because somebody on the Internet is illegally ‘stealing’ their music. These ‘pirates’ are either selling it for an illegal profit, or just passing it around (copying it) to their friends for playing. The ignorance about this matter is appalling. We should look back to the past music industry and learn from history. They say that history repeats itself and that we never learn from it. In the case of illegally downloading music today, we must learn from the past, or if we do not, the recording industry in all its forms will go bankrupt. The work of our talented young performers, composers, songwriter, poets, talking book actors etc will decline. We do not want to return to the practices of the pre-nineteen twenties where there was a free for all and copyright never existed. See my music under my stage name Auralis on http://www.CDBaby.com or http://www.amazon.com or any Internet MP3 site such as Apple ITunes etc.

  • http://drchud.com dave

    To all the thieves:
    Money is a form of appreciation! IF YOU WANT THE MUSIC …PAY FOR IT! IT’S NOT THAT EXPENSIVE. If you steal well, you haven’t listened to your mother! You just suck in life and don’t appreciate peoples blood, sweat and tears.

  • rob gwin

    When you think about the “professional musician” who do you think of? Michael Jackson, Madonna, etc. You think of the musicians on top, not the zillions of obscure musicians that didn’t randomly make it to super-stardom. The question of “should musical talent be compensated” is greatly skewed by scale — yes, musical talent should be compensated, but only a certain amount is needed. Just as there is only a certain limited demand for bricklayers and plumbers and everything else, there is a limited demand for musicians. The difference is, WAAY more people would LIKE to be professional musicians, so the competition is much higher. That’s really all there is to it. When recording and duplication and distribution was actually difficult (for being new) there was an artificial bubble of demand. And now that artificial demand is gone. Boo fucking hoo. You can only cram so many plumbers into a town, and the same is true of musicians. End of story.

  • http://www.johnverity.com John Verity

    I find my music being ‘pirated’ constantly.
    I have also had ‘fans’ telling me how much they love my music – having downloaded it illegally (they don’t think I should be offended!)
    If someone could supply me with a virus that destroys hard-drives,that I could send to people giving away my music I would happily use it – simple as that.
    I’m just trying to (legally) make a living from my music…

  • http://www.indiefolker.com Indie Folker

    Let’s be realistic for a moment. There is absolutely no way to stop the process of downloading. It is not going to happen. Things have evolved in an organic way, to say that the world is unfair is just comic. This is the way it is, it’s the way the game is played, better adjust to the rules. The only result of not playing along is the incapacity to survive. Music is changing because of how we live, of how the internet has changed our lives. It’s time to be creative, or just work harder. I am not a fan of p*ssing against the wind. That saying exists for a reason.

  • http://www.bonepoets.com Christopher Bingham

    tonym says:”So, tell me why when you invent a piece of music then that is different? It is not different and you have a RIGHT to income from your work, whether it’s now, in 20 years or in 50 years.”

    Well tonym, until a few years ago, the market monopoly that is copyright was limited to the life of author, plus 50 years. Before 1978, copyrights ran for 35 years, with another 35 year extension. When the Constitution was written – and I think all the way up until 1909, the copyright term was 14 years.

    Patent is still done in 17 year chunks, with a 17 year extension. Limited copyright was invented because the founding fathers understood that there is a balance between the individuals right to profit from the exploitation of an idea and the cultural commons we all dip into as part of all the music that’s made.

    That’s right: hard core “commies” like Thomas Jefferson understood that ideas belong to all of us and no one “owns” them, as much as intellectual “property” lawyers and patent troll companies want us to believe that. The patent on the steam engine delayed innovations that made them safe and efficient for 35 years. The public domain spurs innovation, patents and copyrights slow it down.

    I spend an average of $1000 a song to produce it. I like to make that money back, and eventually I expect to, but I have to give people a reason to buy it. Mostly they buy it because they want to support the music that is enriching their lives. But you have to ask. You have to make it easy and possible for those people to support you and your work. You have to connect with people to do that. If you’re doing that, it won’t matter that a lot of people down load your music for free – enough of them will buy your music, your other merch, or simply donate to the band.

    Vincent Hayes sez: “And contrary to what anyone says, “No, Joe Blow download junkie is NOT going to go buy the actual CD and support the artist if he likes his freebie.” Anybody know ANYONE who actually does this?”

    Actually Vincent, pretty much all of my audience knows they can get the music for free, but they donate to my music because it brings something good into their lives, or they want to fell good about supporting me or who knows why outside those reasons? It’s not cause I’m such a pretty face. Mostly, I ask them. We’re putting out my 7th record using our adopt-a-song fund raising method. 13 songs on a record. Paid for by the people who want to hear it.

    It took a little longer this project because so many people are out of work. People who used to give me $1000 were giving $100 or nothing at all. It’s been a rough couple of years for a LOT of people. We’re ALL crazy to release records in this economy, with so much competition from ALL the other forms of entertainment.

    49,000 downloads in 6 months is pretty sweet! What are you doing to connect with those fans? Maybe the radio play is what’s hurting you – if the folks that are downloading perceive you as major label, they won’t care about getting you money, because they assume it all goes to the labels.

    And of course BMI and ASCAP don’t care because their system is rigged to favor the majors. If you manage to get some money out of them see if they’ve got the 50 cents of mine that they sent to Michael Jackson for the few adds I got on commercial radio. I’m not sweating it too much though, do you really want to support a system that is THAT corrupt?

  • http://www.bonepoets.com Christopher Bingham

    Oh and Brandon, thanks for the kudos.

  • Ian Ferrin

    I’m very oldschool I guess.

    To me the question is, is there such a thing as intellectual PROPERTY.

    If there is, then downloading without permission is stealing.

    The only way you can morally and legally justify unpermitted downloads is to argue that you’re not taking someone’s property.

    We ARE in a new era. And record companies ARE finding alternative streams of income. And bands are selling trinkets at concerts to survive. That IS the new reality. But it’s a paradigm that’s been forced on us by folks that, surely in practice, don’t BELIEVE in intellectual property.

    I just believe in intellectual property. I believe that owners should be able to do whatever they want with their property.

    Peace

  • http://www.thewimshurstsmachine.com Augusto

    Surely I believe for who is unknown or emerging, “Obscurity is more dangerous than theft”. Personally, I started to consider it as “Advertising expenses” that I do not pay in advance but with the rights I do not get. When possible I just care that the files who are passed around in the Net brings all the correct band name… Luckily everybody in the band does not need the money of the band to live, so we can think this way without be ossessed by “the money I ‘lost’ would not permit me to buy food for my kids”. But on the other hand, is really all money I lost? All who listens and passes my tracks, would really have bought them? Maybe a 5% of them, accordingly to stats. So: just pass my music WITH my band credits and be happy!

  • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Alek-Vila/96424882065 A.V.

    You know, we could be doing a lot more for each other. Let’s quit debating whether it’s wrong or right download music for free.

    All I have to say about that topic is that if I were allowed to vote on legislation to make it harder for people to promote stealing music, I would. Search engine companies should be held responsible for music piracy. Stealing music would dramatically reduce, and legitimate purchases would increase if this happened. There’s no doubt in my mind. Other than that I have no control over it, so I’m not going to think about it.

    As someone who is very passionate about music, I have over 6,000 songs on my iPod that were all purchased legally or ripped from CDs that I own. I believe in supporting artists, and it saddens and angers me every time I’m told by someone I love that they don’t mind stealing music. I’m working on forgiveness about that. I don’t trade mp3 files with anyone. I’m setting an example for my friends and family with what I do, and some people have really noticed and appreciated it. I love music, and I want to see artists share their work in a form that can sustain their efforts.

    In a digest like this, I’d like to read suggestions about building a career instead of complaints about what is happening in the world. I’ve felt a lot of grief about this topic over the last 20 years. Those who suggest that artists should adapt are correct, so bring on the constructive ideas!

    I’m currently recording my 2nd album after 10 years, and it’s costing me a fortune because I believe in paying people to create music. I’m not sure how to make this sustainable for myself. Once the album is finished, I’ll need to get paid so I can afford to produce the next one.

    I’d also like to have more time with the instruments and writing, which means less time at my day job. There’s so much more that I’d like to do, artistically. I’m doing everything I can to get time with the guitar including walking to work with a guitar strapped on and playing into my headphones.

    Due to music piracy, I’m not motivated to release my recordings digitally. I’m not motivated by “sharing my music” in and of itself. This album is costing me a bundle, and I’m motivated by making that back plus a lot more so I can dive deeper into the world of music.

    So here are my ideas…

    I’m strongly leaning towards a small vinyl-only release, since it seems to me that people who buy vinyl are a kind of “true” music fan. The vinyl experience is completely different. Sure, you can make a digital copy from the vinyl and it might be good enough for most people, but somehow I can live with that — just like I could live with people making tapes from CDs before digital recorders were commonplace. A copy from vinyl will never be exactly the same, which makes vinyl pretty special.

    Perhaps I’ll release a digital single or two on iTunes to help promote the exclusive vinyl-album release, but that’s it.

    Also, I imagine that a vinyl-only release will appeal to DJs. DJs are the music filters of the universe. If you were a DJ, would you rather be one to discover and promote a special secret talent or talk about someone that is readily available on every search engine? I guess it’s different strokes for different folks.

    Regarding gigs, I have flatly refused to go to all the trouble of playing shows where I’m not enthusiastic requested to attend and offered compensation. There seem to be endless opportunities to waste time playing where you’re not compensated and audiences don’t give a shit that you’re there. Doesn’t matter how good the music is when you’re playing to people who aren’t interested in music.

    It’s way too much work to lug gear around and coordinate schedules with musicians for rehearsals, transportation, etc to play for nothing. I don’t “need” to play for an audience in order to get joy from making music. People to play for this reason are making themselves miserable in my opinion.

    In summary, I create music for myself, and it’s my business. I have a web site with a booking page to allow for reasonable gigs to come in. Gigs aren’t happening because I’m not promoting myself. I’m too busy doing the recording while working my full-time job to coordinate putting together an act. When I get the album finished, I may do all of that, but I’ll only take gigs that pay and where I’ll be playing to real fans.

    Those are my ideas. How about yours?

  • http://www.myspace.com/unfolk unfolk :: alessandro monti

    Hello there. There’s a pic of a bar code among my pics on fb & ms. The reason is bar codes are slowly becoming the opposite of capitalist symbols to me, they’re something right & good: free download is only fake freedom. After I found my new cd on a pirate website, I wrote a blog on myspace (copied on my infos here on fb – sorry, in Italian only), the title translation is approx. ” the crawling fascism of free download “. After my “studies” on the subject, I decided that most of “file sharing” is only elegant theft. Everybody knows that there’s a big difference between a musician who decides to give away his/her music for free (many Net labels do it), and someone who puts on free download somebody elses’s music (with no permission), but the truth is that today the boundary between the two is almost NON-EXISTENT. Most people who love to “share” make no difference between official & unofficial releases showing no respect for musicians & their work, plus sometimes it’s hard to tell the “rarity” of an album: I noticed that all those file-sharing websites write about “copyright-infringing material” but they don’t really care about it, you must write to them a letter to obtain some kind of deletion!
    Well we all know it’s a complicated matter but I think that all we need is a NEW MUSICAL EDUCATION: in this digital times artists need respect for their work (and its costs), nobody should steal their music; I will always PAY for it, that’s for sure!

  • David McCabe

    Let’s get away from semantics – file ‘sharing’ may not be literally stealing, but it’s tantamount to it. The law should be changed to make it a criminal offense if it is not already. I don’t accept the idea that we have to go along with it and embrace it because we can’t stop it. We have to fight it or it will kill music. Live performing will be the only way for artists to make any money, which will be a problem for some, as their music is too ‘produced’ to be able to do live, or they just don’t have the personality or skills to do it. Some don’t even have a band, but do everything themselves using software and technology. Even some of the big names like Enya fall into this category, so could not survive in this environment. If it is allowed to continue we will lose a huge chunk of creativity that otherwise might have flowered. The thieving COULD be at least reduced, but it may take what will be seen as draconian measures. I would like to see the law used against anyone found with illegally obtained recordings. I’m not talking about raiding houses, but if someone is arrested for something else and has an MP3 player on them, why should action not be taken if it can be shown that they obtained the recordings illegally? It would show there are consequences when you steal. If no action is taken the message is that it does not matter. At the very least the file-sharing sites have to be closed down as soon as possible, and it is time the authorities took this seriously. For now, any artist who EVER offers their recordings for free is part of the problem; they are perpetuating and reinforcing the idea that music should not be paid for. Radiohead and other established groups who have made their millions have promoted this environment by giving away their songs, as a misguided gesture of generously spreading their music as if it is some kind of gift to society. They don’t think about the fact that they are helping to take bread out of the mouths of up-and-coming artists and kill off new music at source.

  • http://www.calumcarlyle.co.uk/ Calum Carlyle

    This is a very good article, and it pretty much covers my actual opinion.
    Basically i think music deserves to be paid for, and i think it’s disappointing that so many people expect to hear my music for free (everybody, basically), but this is a valuable promotional tool if they (like me) then go ahead to buy a product on the basis of what they’ve heard. Very few do in my case, and i find it hard to believe my music is that mediocre after the amount of effort i’ve put in over the years.

    Further, i think it’s disgraceful that so many people seem to think i am joking when i make it known that i ask whether a gig will be paid (in my home town i assume i won’t be being paid, without even asking, though for my recent tour, i asked every venue what they would pay, many simply stopped responding to calls after that, charming…) – seriously, even promoters seem to think it’s okay to ridicule an artiste for thinking their performance is worth being paid for.

    I know most of us (most of the musicians i know anyway) are doing it as amateurs (ie: for love, not money) but given the choice, i’d like to be as professional as i can be, and this includes being paid.

    HOWEVER i take great exception to the article’s first sentence: “Some folks in this over-saturated industry equate music piracy with free promotion” Why is this? because free music is not piracy. In fact it’s arguable whether piracy is a viable term for copying content illegally. Terms such as piracy and theft do not, in my opinion, apply to a situation where nothing is actually being stolen. Do you wake up in the morning to find all your CDs have gone? No. And the lost sales argument holds no water either, you know all these illegal downloaders would not be paying for your album, if they didn’t have the internet, no, they’d just not get your album at all, in fact they’d never have heard of it at all.

    So blaming internet piracy for lost sales is ridiculous, considering we all take advantage of the internet’s benefits for promotional purposes. As i said above though, people copying your stuff for free (whether it’s legal or not) doesn’t, in itself, seem to have much benefit at all, and the “get your name known” argument seems to be virtually worthless for this area imho.

  • Steve S.

    Well years ago things were a bit different than now. Consider this:

    Before the internet we listened to new music on the radio. Sure we could record it with a cassette recorder but we always knew that the quality wasn’t going to be as good as buying it. But today if you can download a digital file the quality is usually better than FM radio depending of course on the bit rate of the file and how you are downloading it, whether as a free download or by recording a streaming file.

    Also, years ago before the internet, when you listened to music on the radio you almost never had access to a complete album. So if you heard something you liked you went out and bought the album so you could have more songs by the same artist and you bought that album without hearing samples of each song. Today however, on the web you can sample every single song on the album before buying and if you find the album on a site like My Space Music you can hear the complete album not just samples of it but every songs on the album streamed from beginning to end which means with the right software you can record it for free. Sure you have to listen to a 30 second commercial between each song but you can still get any song one the album you want without paying for it.

    Things are not what they used to be. But of course the percentages still need to be considered. Not everyone is patient enough to record a complete album in real time and then to delete the commercials. Those who have the money &/or value their time will still buy the album IF they can’t download it for free somewhere else.

    The biggest problem is people copying music and giving it away to their friends for free. How many of us know someone where we work that does that? I know I do.

  • http://myspace.com/ivogeorgiev Ivo

    Now, as I’m reading this whole thing I’m thinking how interesting is the way you presume that the only alternative for people to pay for music is if they are forced to. Interesing, cause there is a law against murdering people and that isn’t working really well… You know – people are still murdering people… In the same way there is a law against stealing – also not too efficient. If I’m to make a conclusion, it seems to me, that the whole law concept isn’t really working, cause it’s function applies post factum. In other words, if your listeners are not sure that what they are listening to deserves to get paid, it doesn’t matter how many sites are going to get blocked or ereased. If the mentality and the general way of thinking is that music isn’t supposed to get paid, then it probabaly won’t be.

    I think that now days the most important thing is going to be for the listeners to aquire basic value of the music they listen to. That is something that’s between artists and listeners. I don’t understand why you think that forcing and scaring people into subbmission to your understanding of the world is going to turn the things around and revive the music industry. The obvious thing that is going to happen is, that people that don’t want to pay for music will not pay for music as they haven’t payed before. In the same way there are people that don’t download files and are not using torrent systems now, although they easily can. It’s not about the law, it’s about the way of thinking. It’s that easy.

    For me the best solution is, instead of crying how slighted you are and how much your own listeners are f***ing you up, just use that same amount of energy at the people THAT ACTUALLY LIKE YOU in the beggining and find another alternative to get paid. And BTW the moment when someone makes 10 really weak songs out of their arses, release an album, it becomes a bestseller and in the next 10 years he’s collecting royalties is so over. Now, we all will have to work more on our music, on our presence, on our relations with our listeners etc… Well, I would say, it was about time!!! :-)

  • http://www.terryleebolton.com Terry Lee Bolton

    1st and foremost all musicians should be compensated for their work… It is work, the hardest work you will ever do. Music is not FREE and neither is LIVE Performances and if anyone thinks they should be trade places with me for a week and you’ll think otherwise. Work one week or a month and give your Pay Check to someone else and then try to Pay Your Bills and see how fast your Career lasts. This is what it is like when people steal music they are taking the Food out of Artist’s Mouths. Any Artist should be Fined who gets on National TV and boasts to Steal His Music because he is already filthy Rich just like they would if a New York Yankee told the Ump To F*uck Off. There are way to may of us Musicians in the world to keep taking this from Club Owners that we should work for The Door or sell frigging Tickets. When I was 15 years old my Band was making 1000′s of dollars a show just because we did a good job and no one ever asked us to play for FREE let alone give them FREE Music. This has to STOP it needs to be regulated in a Working Sense at all levels and if Music had to be paid for The Level Of Talent Would Rise because we would have less “Drunk I Don’t Care We’re Not Getting Paid Bands” on Stages Everywhere and the Pay Scale would Rise because of the consistency & quality of the Talent. So I do blame a great deal of this on Bands themselves who have no confidence in themselves and give their Music and Their Live Shows away for FREE. STEP UP AND DO A GREAT JOB EVERY TIME AND TAKE YOUR CAREER SERIOUSLY AND EVERYONE ELSE AROUND YOU WILL TOO. DON’T PLAY FOR FREE, WHY IT’S NOT GONNA DO YOU, YOUR BAND OR YOUR LIFE AND MUSIC CAREER ANY GOOD EVER. YOU WILL NEVER GET FAMOUS BY LETTING PEOPLE USE YOU NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES AND HOW MANY YEARS YOU DO IT. All your doing is Paying For The Club Owners New Cars, House And his Girl Friends New Boob Job instead of YOURS. Most Musicians don’t know this but when you get to the upper level of a Music Career Unions pretty much regulate how much when where and how a crew gets paid and there is no bargaining on that Pay Scale and The Managers, Booker’s & Lawyers set The Scale for The Acts. I’d also venture to say that Bands that do Charity Shows also get Paid. NOTHING IS FREE IN THE REAL MUSIC WORLD…

  • Michael Jones

    Stealing is stealing however great the amount or how small it is. I loved the one comment by the guy that said that music has always been free on the radio! He is half right, free to listen too but if you wanted to “own” a physical copy of the song you had to buy the record. A mp3 download is the same thing bought off of a company such as CD Baby. CD Baby is a great company for the independent Artist to sell their music. If an artist wants to give their music away that is OK, but it is still not OK to steal anything that is not yours.
    Michael Jones
    Texas Star Records

  • http://www.vincenthayes.com Vincent Hayes

    “But please, please, please, spare us all the Calvinistic self-righteousness — no one really listens to it. If you don’t want your art to be in the world, keep it to yourself. If you let it out the door, it’s going to have a life of its own, and if anyone thinks it’s any good, people are going to copy it and pass it around for the simple reason that they can. In the future, there are going to be more paths, rather than fewer. This is just the way it is. If you don’t like it, get out of the music business and go to law school — there is still lots of money in the corps(e) to pay you for false hope. It’ll probably last another ten years or so.”

    This is the very attitude that has got us to this conversation in the first place. Ok, yes, there WILL be more ways of copying and distributing music, but that doesn’t make it right. We live in a society that has forgotten one of the most important values of life: “Just because I CAN doesn’t mean I SHOULD.” Simply, our values are skewed as an entire race. Our technology is growing faster than our ability to self reflect and ask those important questions such as, “How do my actions affect the bigger whole?”

    And lets get something straight-there is NO comparison between the old days when people made an occasional low quality “mix tape” for a friend and super high quality MP3′s which can be streamed into thousands of computers around the world simultaneously where the average listener can hear no difference in the quality between the MP3 and the WAV file and the original CD. And yes, back in the 80′s and 90′s most folks would go buy the real thing after checking out their mix tape because the quality of the tape sucked. An MP3 is nearly indistinguishable from CD Quality to most lay people, who are perfectly happy loading the MP3 into their iPOD and even their car stereos. THERE IS NO COMPARISON, so we can just drop that one right now.

    Another thing-
    This guy says “If you don’t like it, then get out of the music biz and go to law school”. This is again EXACTLY the kind of attitude that will perpetuate the problem-let’s look the other way, blame it on the musician, and just say “If you don’t like it then get out.” So what if we told that to coal miners who ask for better conditions in the mining industry? Maybe we should have told that to Martin Luther King Jr, “Hey man, sorry, I know it sucks to be black in the US, but deal with it dude.” Or maybe, “Hey, that Hitler guy has killed 6 million people now, but hey, I guess it’s just part of living in Germany where I CHOOSE to live…guess I’ll just deal with the fact that I’m Jewish and it’s something I need to accept.”

    No, we can’t prosecute every single person who copies a CD or downloads illegal MP3′s, but we CAN go after the sites that host these services and demand that they thoroughly research and document that nothing is loaded onto their server without documentation from the person who shares the file. I’ll give another personal example of what I have had to deal with-

    There now are 50-60 sites that offer free torrents of my new CD. When I found the first few, I began contacting each one to request that my materials be removed. These sites do NOT make it easy for the copyright holder. You have to look for their “Abuse” policy, then most of them require a buttload of personally identifiable information, which could be used to theft one’s identity. Then I, as the originator of the work must present evidence to them that I own the work using the criteria that THEY require, wait for approval, and only THEN will they remove the file. But the page remains online long after the file is removed and messes up any legitimate searches for my band’s music.

    On the other hand, the person who uploads the files in the first place is protected by the site’s privacy policy, and along with their disclaimer that the site “doesn’t support or approve of infringements of copyright”, the offending member is nearly immune and gets to remain virtually anonymous. Does anyone see what is wrong with this? Now, multiply this process by dozens and dozens of websites, and you can see the vastness of the problem.

    ten more questions:

    Should a restaurant maintain the right to its recipes? Should a soda company have the right to its logos? Should a car company have the right to a design for a new model? Should anyone in the radio business besides Howard stern be able to call their self Howard stern besides Howard Stern? Should a school teacher be paid for teaching the kids even though she “should do it for the love?” Should McDonald’s be allowed to charge for a hamburger? Should the cable companies be allowed to charge for a cable signal? Should a country club be allowed to charge for membership? Should a a plumber get paid for fixing your pipes? Should you get paid for working 50 hours a week on the assembly line?

    If you answered “yes” to any of these questions then maybe you could also see why a musician should be paid for a performance or for a copy of their recorded music? If not, then you may want to visit your local Buddhist temple, shave your head, and get your priorities straight.

  • http://www.gracepettis.com Grace Pettis

    There may be people profiting from the collapse of the individual’s intellectual property rights, but I believe and have always believed that people should be paid for the work they do. That is why I try to only buy goods with that “fair trade” stamp, and why I refuse to download your albums for free, as a matter of principle.

    Other (better) writers have written extensively on the subject. If you want to educate yourselves about the history of copyright and its importance for people who make things for a living (and really, for society as a whole), read Mark Helprin’s (he also wrote the best-selling novel “A Winter’s Tale”) “Digital Barbarism.”

    For my part, I have to say that “Digital Barbarism” is the most concise and yet beautifully written piece in defense of copyright that I’ve ever come across. Here are a few talking points, as a preview:

    -Copyright is protected by THE CONSTITUTION. Did you know that? (“The Constitution states unambiguously that Congress shall have the power ‘To promote the progress of Science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.’”)

    -From Digital Barbarism: “Copyright is important because it is one of the guarantors of the rights of authorship, and the rights of authorship are important because without them the individual voice would be subsumed in an indistinguishable and instantly malleable mass.”

    -From Digital Barbarism: “Years before, in making my will, I had to accept that the bulk of what I would leave to my children, the product of a lifetime’s work, would after not too long a time simply expire and flow from their hands into the hands of others. Had I built a business, a farm, or a law firm instead of a series of copyrights, this would not be so.”

    -From an article written by Helprin in the New York Times (the comments it received online prompted him to write Digital Barbarism): “You can always make a case for the public interest if you are willing to exclude from common equity those whose rights you seek to abridge. But we don’t operate that way, mostly.”

    -and “We have different words for art and idea because they are two different things. The flow and proportion of the elements of a work of art, its subtle engineering, even its surface glosses, combine substance and style indistinguishably in a creation for which the right of property is natural and becoming.”

  • http://grubbyhalo.blogspot.com Ta’fxkz

    i take the road of “Let the music decide” if my music is good enough to pirate, i am honored to have been the vessel that wrote that song you love.

    If on the other hand, my music inspires you to write me a token payment of what you think it might be worth to you- i am grateful.

    i see no point in me spending my limited lifetime fighting lawsuits – i think my music can speak if not sing for itself.

    Needless to say the issue is complex and at times bordering on being ridiculous

    personally, i try to respect other people’s IP, even when somebody sends me a youtube link, i first check the profile to see if the person who posted it owned the rights to share it- youtube is a gutter of surrogate piracy where the big corporation Google is happy to have more people to flash ads at by not pushing harder towards creating a forum that respects people’s Intellectual Property

    i also think the right to Intellectual Property is yet another human right abused by corporations taking advantage of naive artists who sign away their rights while i oppose the corporations for doing what they do with their veneer of amoral person-hood i respect the artists’ rights to sell out

    I see a pirated morality where people have stopped thinking for themselves when they say “everyone does it” either in the context of selling out or in the context of using pirated material

    Why, even Bill Gates who built his fortunes on selling intellectual property reportedly watched a few videos that were on youtube.

    I was checking Duffonomics: an economics column on playboy by the current bassist with Velvet Revolver formerly with GNR. Duff McKagan has a link to a youtube link of a segment from Real Time with Bill Maher that was removed for copyright infringement

    The fact that the IP violation did not bother a Rock Star and Playboy (who are both getting hit by the downside of the internet) bothers me more than the fact that it did not bother Bill Gates

    i incidentally worked for Microsoft for 5 years before i quit to write songs fulltime and it is largely my time at Microsoft that has given me my respect for IP, and it was GNR that inspired me to be make music with balls – The Question of Piracy has really brought me down to fact bare naked facts that we have a terribly flawed system and the only cure is to address the human conscience that musicians (probably) have unprecedented access to!

    My song Pirate This says it all, i would love it if other musicians would like to collaborate with me on taking this song out. The song Lyrics go

    http://grubbyhalo.blogspot.com/2007/11/pirate-this.html

    You’re welcome to pirate this song
    Make copies and give it out generously
    You’re welcome to pirate this song
    Go ahead treat her like she was yours
    You’re welcome to pirate this song
    You’re welcome to pirate this song

    Rainbows are free and the skies are sunny
    I’m sure you think I don’t need no money
    You rock coz you think I am a star
    Galaxies apart from where you are

    You’ve got to pay for your rental bills
    Gotta scrimp and save for occasional frills
    You have needs that probably elude me
    If you need my music so you can keep it for free

    Chorus

    Lend me your ears this aint no sermonette
    What you hear is what you get
    Paying for music is a harlot’s cause
    My breakfast a bowl of applause

    You’ve got your TRIPS once in a while
    Get some friends to party in style
    My family and pets live on love and fresh air
    Everyone’s wife should have nothing to wear

    Chorus

    Got no conscience – don’t you no fret
    You are sure to pirate even that I bet
    You’ve no money but you have morality
    You would’nt rob a bank, you’d only steal IP

    Go on pinch the artist’s screw
    God who gave the songs will pay the due
    You deserve a Grammy for tasteful piracy
    A fan like you is an honor to me

    Chorus

  • http://myspace.com/tewabuck Chris Buck

    It’s always hard to deal with the future and change. When I was a kid, I cut a record in a studio that had direct to disc recording….I mean vinyl. When you made a mistake you had to cut a new disc. Everything has changed a lot, but, to me the part that is most bothersome is the value of ….everything. The digital age has made it much easier to make killer masters and have a lot of people hear your music, but, music once cherished… is pretty disposable now.
    The creative well is only so deep, but, somehow new and inventive things keep coming out of it and some of that stellar music will survive and rise to the top… regardless of the obstacles.

    I don’t like it, but, I think it’s too late to worry about free downloads.

  • http://www.marklassitermusic.com Mark

    Who cares what you call it? “Internet Piracy” works as well as any euphemism for theft. Stealing copyrighted product is what it means and it harms whatever industry it is directed toward. The labels (and Lars Ulrich) took a beating for trying to protect their product and, in retrospect, they were right. But their attempts were also futile. The digital age makes it impossible to protect entertainment media of any sort. (Think Sony BMG rootkit scandal or “how a piece of tape foiled the music industry”) Movies, music, software, books, can all be acquired without paying the creator a fee. I don’t like the “this is a great opportunity for indie artists to emerge” mentality. No it’s not. Sure, we can put our stuff on iTunes and sell 5 tracks in a year. But it doesn’t translate into making a living and in most cases doesn’t recoup on the front-end investment of recording music. It’s nothing but “head in the sand” collusion. I too was excited when I could download free music in 1999! And it was “OK” because everyone was doing it. Shut up Lars, you’re already a millionaire. But now that I’m a musician, my perspective is much different. All I’m saying is that don’t think this is any way a good thing for the BUSINESS of music or entertainment. In turn, it can’t be good for the artist. My hat is off to whomever figures this out.

  • http://sparklingroad.com Alan MacLeod

    Great to see all the points of view. I’m mixing my 4th release now and found Vincent Hayes’ comments especially chilling.

    Really now kids — writing, playing, recording, producing, organizing artwork, getting CD’s duped, CD distribution, creating and maintaining a website is work. It costs money and I know that going in. But, I do this work because I hope/expect to get some money back. Paying 99 cents per song on Itunes & the like IS actually, the very least you can do.

    Being forced by thieves and cowards to add Internet Theft Investigator and Lawsuit Guy to my skill set (as Vincent Hayes did) is truly disheartening.

    To think that creators of music shouldn’t get paid from sales or royalties is offensive. To think that stealing music (“file sharing” in idiot speak) is ok because technology makes it easy to do is baffling.

    Come the revolution, when I’m in charge of everything everywhere (ha ha) I’ll fix this problem. But until then, here’s what we songwriters and musicians have to lobby for:

    1) Have our Government Agencies (FCC, CRTC, etc.) fulfill their mandates and hold internet service providers accountable for the data that flows through their pipes.

    2) Add a few lines of code to Homeland Security’s computer programs to alert police in a thief’s jurisdiction.

    3) Have labels, legit music sites and songwriter orgs. put 1% of their income towards hiring hackers to launch denial of service attacks against the remaining thieves and cowards.

    This would allow for normal people to see a benefit for their efforts but still lets those of you with unlimited trust funds or who have “married rich” to give away your music for free.

    We decide our future through every decision we make today. Lobby & vote.

    And kudos to France for having a go at Google:
    http://www.boston.com/ae/music/articles/2010/09/30/french_music_industry_reaches_deal_with_youtube/?rss_id=Boston.com+–+Top+arts+and+entertainment+news

  • http://www.efrencamilo.com Efren Camilo

    When my friends make promotion for my music and people likes what they are hearing, the first thing they would say is:

    Where can I download it? or Is it on “x” sharing site? Even knowing that they are in front of someone who can get them the original CD.

    So, what’s the deep spot on this? Piracy has become a social problem more than an economic one. I know rich guys who prefer to buy piracy CDs than the original thing. So is not for money.

    Why does them prefer the pirate product?

    I don’t know the answer.

    The sad thing is that there are rumors about the authors association of my country. There are suspects about the chairman and the people around him, some say that they are behind the traffic of pirate music products.

    So, what can we do when piracy has corrupted even our protection institutions?

  • SC

    I recently found my music available for free download on a site called downloads.nl. I’d never heard of this site, but there’s a hell of a lot of music on there. You just search for a song and click download. No torrent, no nothing. Bang – you got it.

    So I looked into it further. Is the site legal? Who runs it? Are they making money. As far as I could find out the situation is this. The site is 100% legal. But if you download from it in breach of copyright law YOU are committing a crime.

    Now that’s not as simple at all is it? Basically this website is an enabling tool for millions of ‘criminals’. How are you going to stop that? By tracing every single user? Someone else in another post (rather rashly) brought child pornography into the argument. If the world’s police forces, backed up by virtually 100% of the population can’t stop that from being copied and disseminated, what likelihood is there that anyone will have more success with your music?

    My point is that you can shout about ‘stealing’ all you like, but it won’t change anything. You can’t shut down all the sites. You can’t put 50% of the world’s teenagers in prison. You can’t turn the clock back to 1973.

    We all need to look at other ways of making a living from music. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing. In 1973 I’d never have stood a chance of making a record. Now I’m about to finish my third…

  • Rob G

    The over-all creativity and forward progress of music has measurably suffered due to piracy. The writing, recording, mixing, performance and the variety of music – has been directly impacted since people can no longer make a “living” at pursuing music as a full-time profession. The money is simply not there to support people full-time in the business. People who once were dedicated full time to the pursuit of writing, performing, engineering, mastering, and improving their skills – now have to work part-time jobs to supplement their income. This leaves a great percentage of “new” music to amateurs who are still in the early stages of their craft. Don’t get me wrong, there will always be is a place for “new” music in the over-all art of music. However, we have seen time and time again, that the best musical efforts comes from artists over time as they develop their skills and hone their craft. Due primarily to piracy business revenue has shifted from the actual making of music to that of using music to sell MP3 players or charging access fees to internet sites or mobile phone services. Some of the best Grammy Award winning writers now hawk their songs as ring tones on mobile phones to earn a living. It is such a shame because the “technical” ability to really make some incredible sounding music is out there waiting to be explored, discovered, worked and re-worked to really express the musical imagination. But that takes time, and time requires monetary support of some kind. If you truly love music, respect the people who create it and support them by paying for it. Otherwise this industry will atrophy, whither and die. Without music – where in the world would we be?!?!

  • Cccsea

    So, this is an unpopular opinion, I am sure… But get this:

    Your music isn’t worth anything.

    My mother and I both made our livings playing music for many years, though in different genres, and I am telling you: you aren’t unique. You aren’t particularly talented. None of us are. We are like the guy that washes your windshield at a stoplight and expects a dollar out of the driver.

    Every time you get paid for a gig or sell a CD, you should thank your lucky stars. Most people have to work some crappy job in an office or a restruant to come up with 10 bucks, but we managed to do so by doing something awesome.
    But if your music isn’t worth buying, no one will buy it.

    So stop it. Music is free now.
    If you want to make money: tour.
    If you want fame: market to film and tv producers.

    But don’t think that we can legislate the industry back to the 80s.

  • http://www.fff-fighters.com Patrick Vega

    CALLING ALL MUSICIANS:

    http://www.fff-fighters.com

    From Piracy to Streaming:

    First, people stole the music they like. Now though, they do not even care about “owning” it anymore. They stream it.
    It takes 200 LEGAL streams to make up for 1 (one) LEGAL download.

    95% of all music is downloaded illegally (IFPI Report 2009).

    Streaming does not create any revenue for artists. This “system” does NOT work.

    It is time for a MIND REVOLUTION.

    FIGHT! for art. It Keeps Dreams Alive.

  • http://www.stevencravis.com Steven Cravis

    I, too, like the momentum that this blog is gaining on the issue.

    I have a question for everyone. Really think this through: What would be so bad about all file sharing sites being legally shut down completely?

    How about web based technology that detects and prevents every new attempt at creating file sharing sites?

    Wouldn’t this be a win for all content creators?

    I like what Clayton above wrote: “Let’s all stop trying to pretend that taking something that someone else created is right.”

  • rob gwin

    If a loaf of bread cost $100, everyone would be stealing bread too. It’s not particularly hard to do, just wear a big coat to the supermarket. But we don’t steal bread because it’s EASIER to earn $1.99 at some job and then go BUY the bread. The threat of arrest is not an automatic deterrent, it’s just another factor in how easy or hard the stealing option is.

    The means of music production have changed dramatically, and supply has gone way up. Therefore, prices should come way down. But no, we’re all trying to keep prices artificially high, charging 99 cents a song just cause Apple said so. Market price has NOTHING to do with how much money you spent creating the product, and EVERYTHING to do with what people will pay. If they are stealing it instead of buying it, then your price is just too high, sorry.

    Forget about those who will steal anything anyway just because they can. And forget about those who pay the artificially high price because they are music lovers and want to be supportive. They are not the real market. The real market is all the people in the middle who just want to do the easiest thing. If I could click a button and get your song instantly and my credit card gets automatically charged one cent, well heck yeah that’s way easier than going to some dutch torrent site and installing their spyware or whatever.

    Ok, what if it was two cents? three cents? Somewhere in there is a threshold. Let’s find it.

    And yeah, I know that vocal mic cost you $900. Tough s**t. You shoulda borrowed one.

  • http://dianastimmler.com Diana Stimmler

    Someone copying my music and giving it to someone for free instead of promoting my music and directing them to me to buy their own copy, is a huge pet peeve for me. I still haven’t paid for the costs of making the album. Where do they think it comes from? Indie artists don’t have Motown paying for everything. I am more than happy to give away a free song on my album to promote it, but I’m not giving away the whole thing! Downloads are only a freakin’ dollar! If I meet someone that truly can’t afford to buy my music and they are one of my supporters, I will give them one as a gift, or they can pay me back when they can. But it is disrespectful to go copying stuff and ignoring the fact that I have bills to pay too! I make sure my music is worth the price I ask for! I wish there was a way to cut the piracy. I have no problem asking the fan for money when I find out they got the copy from one of my friends. I say, “You owe me $12 bucks, plus $3 for copyright infringement. Don’t want to pay for it? Well, then give me the CD you burned.” Great comments from the other musicians too.

  • http://www.bobsongsmusic.com Bob Chambers

    Humans have been around for millions of years, they have always been able to make music. The ability to capture music by way of recording has only been available for around 100 years – a mere fraction of time in the scheme of things!

    Up until this time the only way to enjoy music was to make it yourself or listen to someone else. There weren’t many who could make money from performance, sure you could busk on the street or in a tavern, or maybe you would play in an orchestra.

    The ability to play a piece of music once, capture it, and then sell it millions of millions of times over simply didn’t exist. There were a chosen few who were lucky enough to join the band wagon and made their fortunes from recorded music, the heyday being the 1970′s. Those days are gone forever. Our songs are now folk songs, to be passed on and handed down through generations to come.

    MP3 players are nothing more than personalised transistor radios that stream whatever tracks the listener wants to hear. Music does not exist as a three dimensional form anymore. It exists in the same way that a radio wave exists; you cannot see it but you know it’s there because you can hear it. Music fans do not regard it as theft, anymore than you or I would consider listening to music on the radio as theft.

    If you don’t want people to “steal” your music the answer is very simple – don’t record it.
    If you want to be a millionaire, think of a new way to get your money from others.
    Personally, I think the internet and digital music is a fantastic way of reaching people with my music that I would never be able to reach even if I lived to be 100 years old.

    You can stamp your foot and campaign for better policing or better still you could invent a time machine and go back to the 60′s….. just think you would also be able to smoke cigarettes in public, the world changes all the time, you simply have to adapt or die!

  • Mrnemo

    Citing copyright laws and so forth is great but the fact still remains that people are downloading music. That’s just the way it is for the moment. It’s the climate that we live in right now. My guess is that there will be technological advancement that will be able to somehow tag music and trace it one day. Until then it is our responsibility to find a creative way to make this climate work for us ad musicians, producers and publishers.

  • http://www.teresamcneilmaclean.com Teresa McNeil MacLean

    Music is meant to be listened to, just as art is meant to be looked at. Playing and practicing is pleasurable & satisfying much of the time, but ultimately, at some point sharing the music becomes the goal. Sharing, however, is hard work, takes time, and often is expensive. I expect to be compensated for my performances (& resent assumptions that I’m playing, not working), and expect to be compensated for my CDs (& generally am). Those who copy/share/steal other people’s music generally wouldn’t have bothered had they’d been forced to pay, and they’re helping the music get listened to. Once your music is “out there” for them to steal, you’re not doing that hard work anymore…they are. What I really mind, however, and I find this inexcusable, is those who copy/share/steal music and do not give the writer/performer/arranger credit. That, I think, is piracy. Then the music HAS been stolen. Listening to, sharing, even performing your, credited, music, is borrowing, not stealing. Would be nice to get paid for that, but I do not get paid when someone views my art, or frames & hangs the invite postcards. …For those who expect me to perform for free (or give them my artwork), with no compensation even in trade…no, I am not “talented”, I love the arts & work hard. It is my job; I expect pay.

  • http://www.scottandrew.com scottandrew

    22 Things Worse Than Piracy (That Can Damage Your Music Career)

    - not making the best music you can
    - putting on boring, lackluster live shows
    - not performing live at all
    - slack rehearsals
    - never soliciting unbiased feedback
    - waiting for “the muse” to bring them inspiration
    - only releasing new music once every blue moon
    - only releasing new music in album format (i.e. no singles)
    - never offering anything at a discount
    - never experimenting with merchandise
    - boring, unimaginative websites built from free templates
    - spending too much money in the studio
    - recording too many mediocre songs for the sake of “efficiency” in the studio
    - horrible, cheap-looking photos and press materials
    - doing it all yourself; never collaborating
    - never “asking for the sale” from the stage
    - wasting money on dubious song contests
    - leaving your merch table unmanned
    - self-written, misspelled, hyperbolic bios
    - believing that value is solely measured in dollars
    - never showing gratitude to listeners
    - believing in level playing fields

  • http://na charles

    it’s stealing!pay for your music it’s not that expensive.

  • Music Has a Right to Dollars

    dumbest thing i’ve ever read: “if i see a shovel in your garage, then through my own efforts go and make a copy”… um, no. your efforts of clicking a button are not the same efforts as the musician’s learning multiple instruments, writing lyrics, composing, arranging, mixing, mastering etc etc. the “you still have your shovel” is just lazy justification., and ignoring the whole history of creations of the mind (as someone said, even protected in the constituion.)

    so tired of the “music is free now so deal with it”. yeah, well, women didn’t have the right to vote for a long time either. what no one is talking about is education: have teachers in school mention it, that music, if you want it, should be paid for. all musicians, tell people that it directly affects you.

    guarenteed: you put 100 bux in front of all the “i like my music being dloaded for free” people and say, “I’m going to give you this money for a CD”, they’d take it. i somehow don’t think they’d say “no, no thanks, here’s the disc, just take it for free.”

  • http://www.bonepoets.com Christopher Bingham

    So the gist that I get reading this board is that so many of you are harmed so much when people download your music and don’t pay for it, that any kind of file sharing site where users infringe should be a felony. In other words you want the government to enforce your copyright without you having to prove infringement.

    Think long and hard about the world you’re creating there, especially you three chord guys who are “creating” from a “tradition.” Especially in light of Gershwin’s famous four note rule, that’s a lot of shutting down.

    Just exactly where are people going to hear your music? Myspace? Shut down filesharing and create a whole new class of criminals and not only do you piss off your fans, you’ve just shut down the best method of being heard that you’re going to get. Back to the great old days of payola, and a coprorate accountant who decides what gets heard and what doesn’t – and I guarantee you that 95% of us will NOT be heard, period. There is NO system that involves gatekeepers that will work in your favor.

    We know how that works because we had 50 years of it, long before every kid in the class could buy a home studio. Wake up people – the number of cd length releases has nearly tripled in the last few years. 115,000 titles in ONE year.

    If you make something that’s worth buying, and ask people for support, people will give it to you. That’s been my experience. I’ve made 7 records this way. Acting like a bunch of entitled wannabees because you put money into your master is not going to get your music into people’s ears or make it better for anyone.

    Giving the US AG the power to order ISPs to shut down websites based on ALLEGATIONS of infringement will REALLY destroy any outlets the major labels don’t like – which means anyplace indies are doing well.

    Making criminals out of people who are excited about music is just going to give them one LESS reason to bother at all.

    No matter what BMI / ASCAP have conned you into believeing, you are NOT owed money every time someone hears your song. You are NOT entitled to be paid forever (and neither is Disney) on every instance of someone using work you did 20 years ago.

    Everyone of us are surrounded by potential patrons. It IS our job to make something of value and like EVERY other profession, it also our job to convince the people who buy our work that it is worth it. We have 70 years of of a broadcast based system that let gatekeepers determine what people heard and who got paid. Why not let that become the people who want your music?

  • http://www.dmvmusic.com David Vaccaro

    So much time and effort, and hard earned cash goes into recording a quality CD. And I’m not talking about just the content either. That’s another story all together. When your not a national act or even semi-national, it really hurts to have “fans” taking your music and not supporting your band or artistic efforts. So people can buy a 6-pack of beer for 8 bucks, but they can’t buy a 5 dollar CD from an artist they like that they can listen to over and over again?

    To all those who feel “times have changed and music should be free”, I’d say this, if your boss came up to you at work and said, “to keep up with the times we’re implementing a new payroll policy. You’ll be working for free from this point on”, how long would you keep working there??? Not long? Why not?

    That’s what your asking musicians to do when you pirate their music. It used to be that the record companies, managers and agents, used to screw the bands. Now thanks to technology their “fans” can screw the bands too. Awesome!

    What I see happening is music may become free, or very cheap. But here’s the catch, bands are still going to play and perform. But should they become successful, there’s only one item that can’t be pirated, and that’s the live performance. So if your pirating music on a regular basis, don’t start complaining when the cheapest seat at a live concert begins at $100.00.

  • https://sites.google.com/site/alexjmoliver/ Alex

    It has ever been the same, one way or another. Music, art (and artists don’t help taking the Micky with unrealistic prices despite what people’s tastes might be), theatre – all are lesser citizens especially when it comes to reward. Except of course where the imbalance goes rabid, paying celebrities just for ‘appearing’.

    As a writer (of songs and more) I understand how it is to be precious about a work. However, we are merely custodians of our chosen field of ‘art’. That means that if we wish people to inherit the same appreciation we have, we need to hand it along in good and pure order. It’s virtually impossible to do a music strike or somehow inflict the ‘you need us so don’t mess with us’ effect. We should be above such things anyway.

    A millionaire once said to me (without so much as buying me a cuppa, despite my obvious hardship at the time): ‘you’re the millionaire, boy, with all that wonderful music’. I could only agree, despite any logic, (hunger), or persuasion. From my position, having never been neither lucky/knowing the right people/ or assertive – well I may see it differently. I would certainly find a way in the courts to get compensated if I could; but there you go, if you are playing for reward, surely you go into a contract with written and agreed terms because it is a business deal. (Try doing that with the landlord of a small town pub/bar. Musicians’ union? Don’t me me laugh, we lose enough without paying some else to loose your case…Sorry, but it’s like phoning the police when your car’s nicked – better just inform the insurers.

    I did make comparatively silly amounts of money busking in the 70s; twice the amount steelworkers earned in a week in just an hour, I.E. £80.00. I managed that in the UK, France and Holland. I thought I’d do it every summer until I could afford to get into a studio and put a band together. But times changed – busking seems like an institutionalised joke now. So my career was wrecked by cities like York trying to take something wild and free and put it into a local goverment office.

    Business people, people on the take and others with similar mentalities ignore how much they or anyone might get out of music – hell, you can play your fav stuff over and over and over – how much would a self-regenerating burger cost? So what value a live performance? I shudder at some festival ticket prices but I have to admit, half the time I only ever like one or two bands on the list. We cannot rationalise art, or give it monetary value. And in a perverse way I’m pleased. People who’ve been ripped off collosally will spit when I say I’d just be happy if the world or some part of it liked what I did.

    So to even things a bit I give free (guitar and stagecraft) lessons and teach people the value of their own worth. That at least gives them the confidence to keep working at their art.

    The fat cats may smile, but when your money’s gone, it’s gone. But for us er, ‘muscians’, there’s always another song in our hearts.

  • http://www.myspace.com/grasshairduo Heath Watts

    I really need a new car, but I don’t have the money to pay for one. Should I steal someone else’s car or go to a dealership to steal one? I’ve also considered going to the dealer and telling the manager that I want a car for free. They should give me a free car because their prices are too high, and I might not like the car. Why should I pay for something that I might not like? Yes, I can try the car, but unless I actually use the car for a few days, I won’t really know if I like the car. I suppose if I like the car, I could give the dealership a few dollars to encourage them to manufacture more, but I doubt if I will. There are so many great cars available and I want to drive them all, so why should I waste my money on only one of them, if I can have as many as I like for free. Furthermore, didn’t my tax money bail out most of the U.S. car companies; therefore, haven’t I already paid them enough? I want my free car; I’m tired of these greedy car companies building cars simply to make a profit. Cars should be free and available for everyone’s enjoyment.

  • The Big Lost

    Interesting to say the least. I think it all comes down to one thing. See if you can figure out what I’m getting at in the next wee bit of writing. Have you heard the Smashing Pumpkins (my favorite all time band) new stuff? Billy is offering 40 some songs for free over the next 2 years. AWESOME RIGHT??
    Not awesome – I won’t even download the stuff for free cause I DON’T ENJOY IT. In fact I am appalled by it. I made that decision after streaming it.
    That is the bottom line here. With the dramatic leap in technology I saw a dramatic leap in SUCK. You know the musicians I am talking about. The half way decent guitarist and lousy singer in the hallway at school that plays for his family and his girlfriend/boyfriend, and who is severely out of touch with reality when it comes to his/her talent but who can now record on their computer and burn it onto a disc and call themselves awesome.
    And for you professional musicians that make a living here…. Make some music that gives me goosebumps!!! The last band to do that for me was COLDPLAY in their debut release parachutes!!
    Everyone is making throwaway music now. Listen a week and throw it away. Just like everything else in the world. Look at freeking red box. Cheapen the products why don’t you you turds!
    It’s just like depression or a bad marriage. You can keep covering it up with things that treat the symptoms but until you treat the problem you’ll never fix anything. And I’m sorry to say the majority just doesn’t care, and you all know it.

  • http://www.bonepoets.com Christopher Bingham

    “dumbest thing i’ve ever read: “if i see a shovel in your garage, then through my own efforts go and make a copy”… um, no. your efforts of clicking a button are not the same efforts as the musician’s learning multiple instruments, writing lyrics, composing, arranging, mixing, mastering etc etc. the “you still have your shovel” is just lazy justification., and ignoring the whole history of creations of the mind (as someone said, even protected in the constituion.)”

    That was me that said that on both counts. I’ve spent 30 years playing out, have a degree in comp and orchestration and I’ve been in the trenches selling music most of my life and I can tell you it’s WAY better now than it was in the days of the gatekeepers. I don’t take any of this lightly.

    Copyright started out as (and still should be) a limited monopoly on the market for your ideas – not a double lifetime excuse to collect rent.

    Just because you can’t force people to buy something doesn’t mean they won’t. You guys succeed in shutting down the bit torrents and ALL you’ll hear is Britney Spears as well as stifling innovation.

    Just out curiousity “music has a right to dollars” what does your stuff sound like? Got a link? I want to hear music that has a right to money…

  • http://www.youtube.com/trixie10121 DD

    I dont think anybody on cdbaby has anything to worry about pirates only steal music they know they can sale nothing against cdbaby artist or independents but they only pirate popular artist so for indie artist this a non issue.The greater issue should be that cdbaby should put a little of those millions of dollars they make every year and advertise or sponser concerts or anything to bring more customers to cdbaby then we might sell more music.Now I think that could be a subject that would matter to all of us on cdbaby instead of some stupid piracy crap.And besides if they did steal your music what are you going to do about it hmmm there is nothing you can do..

  • Music Has a Right to Dollars

    how does shutting down the torrents give me only britney? there’s tons and tons of new music on iTunes, Amazon, etc. i never illegally download, and buy something brand new every week cuz it’s so easy and cheap… (just bought the new Tricky, cuz I was a longtime fan and it was only 10 bux, even tho’ i haven’t like his last couple of releases. before that, bought Arcade Fire… never was a fan, but hey, it’s only 10 bux– and it’s turned out to be quite good. both are on tiny labels, and i’m happy to support them…)

    my argument is that music has value, and if you want to ‘own’ it, (listen to it whenever you want) then pay for it.

    if you think downloading for free is fine, then i hope you walk the walk and give away ALL your recorded music for free. and i hope you’ve put it on the web as copyright free/creative commons.

    it IS way better now without the gatekeepers. guys like me can, and do, sell hundred of tracks a month (sometimes thousands), year after year, because of digital distro. it’s the money i made from selling music that allowed me to make more music…. but maybe if some of the tens of thousands who’ve d’loaded my music illegally had paid for it, i’d have been able to hire an orchestra for a song or two. hmm, maybe i’d even have been able to hire you…

    so i was just about to send you a link to iTunes to my music, but then i realized why should I? if you happened to actually like it, you’d just go download it for free.( fyi it has gotten great reviews in national newspapers, so i’ve had professional third party evaluation and validation, thanks.)

  • http://earjuice.com Houston Guy

    Music has always been pirated. It’s just part of the game. I find that if a person really likes something, they will eventually support the artist. Whether it’s buying their music(vinyl,mp3,cd, cassette, flash drive), seeing the artist live, buying a t-shirt or merchandise, personal paypal donations, or just exposing it to others; people like to support good work. As a working artist, I’ve found that you just need to make these platforms more available. However, I personally release a lot of material under Creative Commons and just recently started selling music digitally. If my listeners want to buy something that I think is worth selling then they will. If they want to copy it, they will. I think we can all agree that music should be licensed if used for personal gain. But what I’m saying is that on a consumer level, different formats just have different values now. My personal format favorite is vinyl, which in my opinion, has outlived formats such as reel-to-reel, 8-track, cassette, CD’s, and its physical presence has an advantage over mp3′s.
    Christopher also has a point that I’ve been interested in lately. Most of the Intellectual Property and Copyright system seems to be inhibiting our current culture more than it’s original progressive purpose. One example would be that musicians themselves probably pirate the most music simply for research and passion. They also support a respected artist when they can. But by inhibiting their access to music, it would be inhibiting the progression of music itself.

    Just some thoughts,
    Houston Guy

    Here’s my work.
    http://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/HoustonGuy
    If you like it, buy it. If you’re going to copy it, give it to the cool people. Otherwise enjoy about 47 free albums on my website.
    earjuice.com

  • http://www.myspace.com/keith.crawford Keith Crawford

    Technology has allowed independent artists like myself to capture their talent in a professional sounding manner. So had technology allowed people to distribute videos, music, photos, etc., for all to hear and see. But does that mean that people should violate the rights of others? No, it doesn’t. What is different between me spending time and money creating, recording, and distributing music and a person who comes to my house and paints the whole exterior? Nothing. We are both doing a job for which requires compensation. Just because I enjoy my craft doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be paid for what I do. Taking someone’s music and openly distributing without compensating the artist is stealing. Just because computers make it as simple as a few keystrokes doesn’t make it legal to do. Sure, if I don’t pay the guy who just painted my house, he’s physically in my face, he knows who I am, he can sue me, etc., etc. But those who acquire music without paying for it and, worse, distribute it to others freely can easily get away with such stealing. The owner of the music isn’t there to confront the thief. By the way, for anyone who does “steal” music, visit your local art gallery and try to walk out with a painting… if you get caught you will be charged with theft. But isn’t that the same thing as stealing music? Sure, you are taking someone’s art and not paying for it.

  • http://www.myspace.comfirstfruitspublishing Jimmy Fox

    There’s tons of songs out there and people are giving them away, because truthfully, they should be given away. Everybody and their Moma think that because of the cheap convenience of computer studios, that they should be considered legitimate Songwriters and Producers because they own one (a computer studio). You cannot make yourself a Songwriter, the same way that you can make yourself a plumber or a electrician, Songwriters, like Poets, are born. Born and blessed with a talent that cannot be recreated at will. As stated, there are tons of songs out there that people are giving away to any and everyone that wants a copy. There’s no need for song piracy when people are giving away more songs than the average person has room to download, people just must be made to understand that IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH TO STEAL, THEN IT’S GOOD ENOUGH TO PAY FOR.

  • http://sparklingroad.com Alan MacLeod

    Well, it saddens me to read so many comments from the anti-artist / “I Me Mine” personality types on a great artist-friendly site like CD Baby.

    It’s ok if you don’t value your music or want to be paid for your efforts. But why attack and undermine others do value their music and do want to be paid for their efforts?

    Ya’ think all music should be free because it’s easy for you to copy and steal it? All music should be free because some music isn’t as amazing as you think it should be? PLEASE. Why are you thinking like a myopic two-year old child – grow up!

    For any musician or composer to actually state that they have a right to download and distribute music they didn’t create or buy, is beyond crazy. You need psychological help and on your way, pick up some ethics.

    If you’re a thief, well, ok – I suppose you have your reasons – but don’t then be too cowardly to admit that you are actually a thief.

    The term “File Sharing” even sounds innocent and beneficial, so kudos to the thief who coined that phrase. It’s a great example of using language as propaganda.

    Using flashlights at night to hunt deer (called “jacking deer”) is wrong and became illegal once enough good people realized it was happening. Owing slaves was wrong and that became illegal too. Laws and the enforcement of laws eventually catch up, but only after immoral and ethically deficient dolts have had a go. Thankfully, the technology that makes it easy to steal music will also make it easier to track thieves down and prosecute them.

    Hiding behind your keyboard “jacking” songs is wrong. It never was legal. It isn’t legal now and it won’t be legal in the future. This isn’t about “music fans” or “good songs” or “the majors” or “the indies”. This is about basic ethics. Taking something without permission is stealing. Stealing is wrong.

  • http://www.johnrusnakmusic.com Almostchris

    Everyone else gets their paycheck at the end of the week/month. Why shouldn’t musicians? Down with piracy!

  • http://www.bonepoets.com Christopher Bingham

    “how does shutting down the torrents give me only britney?”

    Because if you shut down the torrents, iTunes BECOMES the gatekeepers. I’ve bought a bunch downloads myself, but I buy used cds from major label artists I like. That way I support a local business but I don’t support the label. But, oh no! I “stole” that music because neither the artist or the label got money for that sale/ (It’s called the doctrine of first sale, and it’s under attack too. Hand in glove with this notion that we should be paid for every utterance of an idea, is the idea that a fan never “owns” the music, it’s just “licensed.”)

    I’ve got all kinds of good reviews (Oh boy! An extra 3 sales!) even got a five page spread once. (Oh boy another 25 sales!) I’ve sold about 8000 cds over the years. That doesn’t mean I’m owed a living if people copy them and share with friends. Those torrent sites are radio play for the 90% of us who will never get more than community or college adds. You shut them down and have fun with the cds in your living room. HOW are people going know you exist? CDbaby? Sell some cds and you’ll be interesting enough to get on the best bets cover (or whatever it’s called) but oh yeah, you need to be heard to sell enough cds…

    “Taking something without permission is stealing. Stealing is wrong.”

    How is someone making a copy “taking” it. You still *have* the song. Your fans have the song. One more person who couldn’t care less about your work 3 minutes ago has heard and either likes it or not. If your music and your efforts to connect with your fans isn’t enough then you’re not doing your job.

    What so many people here are calling “stealing” is an old account term that used to be called “opportunity cost.” Only a record company or congressional accountant would call having people promote your music for you “theft.”

    It’s the old question: if being exposed to commercials is how you “pay” for music on the radio / TV, is getting up to pee “stealing?”

    I just spent $750+ mastering my 7th record. If 100,000 people download it on bit torrent, it’s MY fault if I can’t give them a reason to buy. My fans just GAVE me over $9,500 to record the thing. I worked my ass off to convince them to adopt songs for $300 – $500, buy advance copies for $25, become “Honorary Bone Poets” for $50 – they’re doing it because they want to see my music happen and they want to be part of it. They’re doing it because they get a sense of satisfaction making the record happen, NOT because they expect a financial return on investment.

    The people who think your music is worth it will support it. It’s a different market, because anyone can make a copy of pretty much *anything* – and that’s a GOOD thing. It means we ALL have access to more information than any time in history. That includes music and film. It also means if you want to stay in business, you need to understand you’re in the business of getting people from one place to another, not in building buggies. (You’re in the business of helping people understand the world via the medium of song, in case you missed that.)

    “The term “File Sharing” even sounds innocent and beneficial, so kudos to the thief who coined that phrase.

    It’s a great example of using language as propaganda.” and Owing slaves was wrong and that became illegal too.”

    So now your fans are the moral equivalent of slavers? (I hope your music isn’t as hyperbolic as your argument.) The RIAA / MPAA are the ones with the propaganda machine. It’s called “copying” because you make a copy. It’s called “filesharing” because you’re sharing a file. No one is denying you a THING if your stuff is torrented. Somebody ELSE just increased your fan base and it didn’t cost you ANYTHING. Try getting airplay for that.

    I’ve done the club scene, I’ve done the radio promo, I’ve played festivals, and all the stupid crap that used to be the way we were “supposed” to go about “making it.” The times that I’ve been most successful are the times when I’ve just got myself in front of a dozen people (then a hundred, a few hundred and eventually several thousand at festivals) that wanted to listen, and gave them a reason to be enthused.

    The world you people want to make is the world where Comcast and iTunes decides if you’ll be heard. Eventually, if we give the internet (and you guys are working really hard at it with the “file sharing is theft” line) you’ll have your website (available at the future equivalent of dial up) and if you sell enough and give them enough of the take, they might keep you on their servers. We know that story. It’s what they did before Napster.

  • Henk

    Interesting viewpoints, all.

    But I’ve got another angle, that might not be too popular with the Big Media types. So hear me out:

    We live today in an age where stars are manufactured. They are created out of thin air, based purely on their physical appeal or their willingness to show their boobs and shake their asses on music videos. This is all done in lieu of raw, appreciable talent. Ask any of these peach-fuzz boy-bands to come up with something creative, on their own. And then you go and rip our testicles through our wallets to pay for this crap. There is no talent any more. The few that there are, do this for the love of it. How many of you have heard of Roderick Land, and his brilliant song “King Kong Tonight”? Do yourself a favour and hit YouTube and look for it. It rocks. That’s talent. That’s something I’ll pay for. Yet, he’s got a day job. He didn’t do it for the money.

    For the rest, I get my music from torrent sites. I hear a nice band on the radio, and I hit a torrent site and get their full album. And here’s the clincher: If I like it, I go out and buy the CD. True story. I’m a bit of an audiophile, and the 320kb/s (as high as you get) sounds tinny and empty. But it serves its purpose well to sample the other goodies on a CD you want to sell me while only giving the one and only good song on the album any airtime. I refuse to pay 100 units of the currency of your choice where a mediocre artist will maybe, if he’s lucky, receive ten units. The other ninety goes to fuel this big, lumbering, cynical machine we call the “Music Industry” – where raw talent is despised and big boobs and the ability to shift units is adored. Good CDs will be bought. Crap CDs by crappy, manufactured faux artists will not.

    The same goes for the movie industry. Take a look at movie tickets. Take a look at what these famous movie prima-donnas get up to with the millions they get paid for three weeks of bitching and moaning. I don’t care if Catherine Zeta-Jones’ little chihuahua has Evian water, tap water is good enough for my dog. I think the whole piracy issue is a great development in the evolution of human culture, so that vastly overcompensated morons can get back to reality, and that real talent can get out and shine.

    I paint in my spare time. I don’t get compensated for it. I’ve got an honest day job. Yet, if somebody pirated my stuff and I see prints of it on the web, I will be flattered. Without being compensated, that recognition will fuel my desire to create better paintings. I do it for the LOVE of it. And I think if the music- and moviemakers get it through their thick skulls that the love of it is the ultimate incentive for artistic expression, then movie success will not be rated in box-office take anymore, but rather in how many free downloads it generated.

    And don’t feel bad about it. A good artist is an honest artist. If you’re not getting paid to do your thing, go flip burgers somewhere and record your music in your spare time. Doing it for money is artistically dishonest, to say the least.

  • Henk

    …besides, I have invented a very tasty hamburger in the early eighties. It’s to die for. Is it reasonable of me to expect payment anytime anybody eats one?

  • http://coliebrice.com Colie Brice

    If you do what you do well enough, some people will patronize it.. That’s all you can do.. Be yourself, do what you can to get heard and hope you inspire enough good will to get paid..

  • Alexis Ortega & Orq Abda

    Hey what about the new aggrement with Cd baby ? any oppinion ? lol

  • http://www.bonepoets.com Christopher Bingham

    Which new agreement with cd baby? What have I missed?

    • Chris R. at CD Baby

      I believe they are referring to our slightly tweaked terms of service. We are sending emails out to all our artists this week. If you have not already received it, you will soon. But it is nothing to be scared by. You still own all the rights. Money is still paid out in the same manner, percentages, etc.

  • http://www.bonepoets.com Christopher Bingham

    I’ll look forward to reading it :-)

  • Richard Semper

    I have mixed thoughts on this one.

    First – music piracy is stealing! It may not be taking something physically away from the music creator, but it is definitely obtaining something for nothing at the expense of the creator and the industry as a whole. This is because of the way our system of remuneration for the artist works.

    Second – the internet is a great medium for dissemination of music, enabling artists to be heard by the widest audience possible. We must not kill it by draconian over-restriction. We need to persuade our audience that our music is worth paying for, not legislate force and restrict.
    Nor do we want a return to the bad old days when massive corporations controlled it all. Not good for the artist or the consumer. The time was not so long ago when the only artists to make money were a select few at the top who made ridiculous amounts, while others were struggling around a few local clubs and holding down the day job to make ends meet. Much potential has been lost this way. Then there was the excessive control of the artists’ muse by these corporations, some artists who could afford to rebelled eg Prince, George Michael, Jean-Michel-Jarre, to name a few.
    And for the buyer, requiring us to pay £4 plus for one single or £13 for an album having only heard one or two tracks when CDs came out in the early nineties, and the tight controls over availability, made collecting a frustrating and very annoying process. Constantly we were asked to pay for stuff we did not want, leaving less funds for the rest of the good stuff. No wonder then the backlash when the internet made sharing possible!

    In spite of this I do not advocate ‘sharing’ ie making illegal copies of music files, and always try (often in vain) to encourage others to buy the music they like. I have always paid for the music I like and others should too. You know its right!

    Third – File sharing sites – it seems to me there should be a legitimate role for these. Look at the massive back catalogue of recordings for which we have already paid (often several times on different compilations). The artists have made their money for these tracks, why should they provide a never ending stream of income for the record companies? Putting them in the public domain would encourage these companies to promote new talent instead of constantly repackaging the old. Also there are many old recordings out there which are no longer available any other way. And we could use such sites for our own promotional material. What is needed is the ability to police them to ensure only legitimate public domain material is made available.

    Fourth – Musicians – don’t do your gigs for free, unless you are really mediocre. If you are good you will have fans who want to pay to see and hear you, and who feel good about supporting what they like.

    Like I said, mixed thoughts. The internet is great, now we only pay for the music we like, at reasonable prices. Finding the recording we want is so much easier, no matter how old it is (not subject to some company deciding it should be deleted from their catalogue!). More independent artists can get their music heard than ever before, sure some will not make much money, but then, it’s up to the fans to decide what is good enough. Make it good and hopefully you will succeed. The artist has the tools and freedom to more easily create the music from within. This has to be a good thing. I just hope that as the technology evolves we find ways to make the system more fair.

  • marrrtin

    Clearly, the entire landscape of the music/film/entertainment business has changed, is changing. In my opinion, this is a good thing: change is not only good, but inevitable. Music is fundamentally an art. This is where it all begins. I think it’s time to change the perception of what we do to, perhaps, the TV concept of the 50s,60s, 70s , and 80s. The shows we love , the shows that formed and changed and entertained us were all free. However, they were supported by a relentless and vicious advertising/marketing campaign that was the true business of television. Use yr art, yr music , the same: it’s the bait for yr own marketing. Nobody bites bad bait. Don’t take poor gigs, don’t rip yrself off, but if U, the artist ,can make an overflowing tip jar or get some itunes purchases or sell many drinks and get a cut of the bar whilst creating a fan that returns time and again to yr shows just by NOT paying a cover, then you’ve served yr own cause well. COPYRIGHT IS DEAD FOLKS- might as well start enjoying it.

  • http://reverbnation.com/ericmckinney Eric McKinney

    I think we have come to an age now, where you shouldnt get paid for recordings. Ill admit. I work very hard on writing my cds, but i do most of it myself, in my basement. Where all my equipment was paid for after one cd. So now, all its taking up is my time. Which is a bitch. But here is what i do.

    I give “demos” away to people free. These are just burned cds, with 4 of my songs on it, with my email, and website. If people like these four songs, they will go out and buy it off itunes or wherever. Which is great. But often times they pirate it. Which is fine too.

    I think musicians these days should give there recordings away for free, but play a ton of live shows, and get top dollar for those. Its already happening now. Why do you think concert tickets are going up so high? I rather pay double the normal price to go see my favorite band, than pay for there cd.

  • http://www.cynthiaselegantcakes.com Cindi Taylor

    I am currently right in the nasty middle of a battle for the music rights left to me by my father before he died. A huge company came in and stole his music in 2004, and the next thing I know, it is being marketed from Germany all over Europe and here in the states. It was stolen by someone from the states and made part of a compiliation of songs on a cd. There are more people online that I have found that have taken other songs of his since his death, and are actually reproducing vinyls and cds, selling them for 4x more than he would have! It makes me sick. I don’t mind suing the a$$es off these pirates!

  • http://perhapspiano.com Laura McMillan

    mp3ify dot com offers free downloads of every single video that’s on youtube, copyrighted or not. If your original music is under copyright, all it takes is an email to them with ‘cease and desist request’ in the subject line and links to your youtube video in the body of the email to have them mark it ‘restricted’ on their site so no one can download mp3 free.You will receive a prompt and courteous response from them. They do ‘suggest’ $20 donations on their site, but non of this goes back to the artists, it is used to keep their site up and running. For all who have worked hard to offer mp3 downloads on itunes, cdbaby, etc….I hope this information is helpful.
    Laura McMillan pianist,composer.

  • http:www.daveosti.com Dave

    Wow, I am sad reading all this
    all I hear is a bunch of stale recycled rhetoric regarding the piracy issue
    what I am hearing is that fame is no longer cool, that making lots of money from your art is no longer sexy, that the young people want some kind of heroic recognition for beating the big record labels and exposing everyones art by sharing it to make things better,safe, and oh so fair and just? sounds like the movie the Stepford wives! I am frightened of this self entitled generation of laziness! where does it go from here? will it be uncool for a homeless person to ask for a dollar if his dance isn’t popular enough to fill a venue? will a wood carver be out of line for asking two dollars for a bird house? what is the point of life without contrast? without the mystique of the rich and famous? how can you be exited about a concert where the artist is no more famous than anyone in the audience? all of you are swimming in a frenzy of self justification that will permanently sterilize Art itself and when that happens there will be no need for the word Art,it will be void of value in a new world that boils down to desensitized seniors with no use-able skills ” who needs web designers when its not cool to be compensated for anything” I am already building a time capsule filled with memento’s of the good old days of Artistic Value and it will not include this particular generation! this generation complains about manufactured fame, They had to manufacture it because only skanky chicks with wobbly breast exposed was literally the only thing that could get your attention! You created it! now the Jerry Springer show represents your depth of intellect and responsibility, You created that too, Have fun in your golden years.
    P.S.Hope your health care providers don’t mind you just” Deciding not to pay them” After all their “Still doctors and you haven’t taken that away from them”
    I heard somewhere that Music is Healing? Hummnn!

  • Skipper

    I’ve been recording and selling CDs for 25 years. I was doing pretty well for a long time: people love my songs, and I’ve sold 100,000 myself, as an independent artist on my own label. I’ve proceeded along this path because I’ve had a great relationship with my fans, who supported me and bought my CDs. Music has been my full time job all these years- because my music is very good – and because I’ve worked my head off on recording, promotion, distribution.

    I’ve been able to earn a modest income, have a family, and live like a normal person. Thanks to people paying for my music. I’ve poured much thought, energy, imagination, money, and years of work into my award winning songs. They are unique. They are my mission in life. They are like my children. When people steal my songs, they are slapping me in the face, and stealing money out of my pocket. It hasn’t always been easy to be a musician, and I deserve to be paid for my creative, copyrighted work.

    I still sell some CDs to older folks – grandmas especially – who are used to paying. The new generation of young parents is another story: they don’t relate to paying for music, so my sales (CDs and downloads) are diving… Though they all tell me how much their kids love my songs and play they every time they get in the car.

    I’d hoped to have a modest sort of retirement from my music. But now at 61 years old I’m looking for a day job. The pirates are killing the good with the bad. I’m switching my creative energies to other artistic projects now. Why throw away talent and effort on music anymore?

    For those who say ‘free music is great promotion’: Not everyone wants to, or is able to, tour endlessly doing concerts. Look at the genius pianist Glen Gould – one of the greatest recording artists ever – He didn’t like performing, and focused on recording only for many years… And thank god there was a major record label to help, or the world would be without his brilliant recordings. The big labels weren’t always exploiting artists.

    To all you people who smugly justify stealing music with your self serving arguments: Look in the mirror – don’t be a thief! Spend a few bucks and BUY music, so you can help your favourite artists make more. You’ll feel better about yourself, your karma will be positive, and you’ll contribute to helpin support someone else on their artistic quest.

  • http://cdbaby.com/cd/masked2 The Masked Man

    Michael jackson,Teena Marie,Barry White,Rick James,James Brown,Lou Rawls etc are all dead and gone but their music lives all of the money in the world will not bring them back and you are not going to a concert performed by them anytime soon! their is no such thing as music piracy but there is a such thing as idiotic DJs and radio station that want to control everything by forcing us to listen what they want us to hear! and out of print records that a consumer wants but you have to go to some God forsaken mountain just to hear that we dont have that song! there goes your answer!life is to short to be worried about this stuff if your song is no good it simply is no good!and one more thing STOP labeling songs that are 1 week old old school it is those dimwitted idiots and their narrow minded point of views that are and have been destroying the music business!

  • Greg Underground

    Dave, Skipper & Richard Sempler! You’re comments were the best. Warmed my heart. Some of the others too.
    I’ve had it with these folks talking out of their ass to justify their theft!
    If the ones who want to give away their crap music away go right ahead. thats your right.
    I’ve just spent $15,000 recording my album and its been my life’s goal for a long time. Im not giving it away for the sake of free promotion. People you can stream any song in the world! sometime the artist even gets paid. but if you want to own and possess that song, something that brings joy to your heart, makes you sing, makes you dance, makes you feeeel something. dont you think the person who had the talent to create that deserves to profit 10 to 25 cents so they can eat too?
    What the hell is wrong with you and your entitlement. Keep stealing folks and talking all your hot air to justify it.
    It’s theft just like shoplifting any other product or service. Talk all your bull shit you want, but some of you will be simply be standing in front of judge and be judged by the laws of your countries and fined thousands of dollars.
    Quite stealing every fucking last job in the business. If you want to give away your shitty music go ahead. but some of us have talent and a gift and deserve to make a living just like any other person who does any other work.

  • Greg Underground

    PS And believe me we are working on it.
    2011 – The Year The Music Business Draws the Line in the Sand On Music Theft.

    1. We are going to offer more & more excellent consumer options for people to buy the music, movies etc. they love I-Tunes is kind and more models will flourish. Especially subscription services. Say $10 to $15 per month to download tons of music. You love music, here it is. Simple.

    2. Education & Awareness – we are going to educate the public on how their theft is hurting thousands of people and how our work is just as valuable as their own jobs. I don’t see them going to work for free. In fact I invite them to go to work for free and see how that feels for them. Also how their actions are dumbing down culture.
    We are also going to educate them on what they can and cannot do and we are developing more laws and ways to police it.

    3. Prosecution – we are going to prosecute for theft. Focus on #1 but if people don’t get it. Tell it to the judge.
    It’s a very simple matter of right and wrong. Do people especially those who don’t work the music or creative arts industries think they or their kid is going to walk around with a $200 device filled with over $2000 worth of stolen content? And we’re not going to speak up?!! That’s $2000 retail. and about 5 to 10 $ Million! in production and marketing costs! Try going to your corner store and shoplifting $2000 worth of product what do you think would happen? The police will be at your house that day. We are going to speak up! thousands of us are going to band together and correct this behavior by using the laws of our country.
    Those of you who want to give away your shitty music and not have a job go ahead. no one wants to hear it anyway.
    Those of us who are the real deal, and deserve to be part of the team are going to fight for rights.

    And to Gen Y. and others. Grow up babies, Free rides over soon. Enjoy your viruses.

  • 55Motown

    Skipper/Greg – Thank you. A breath of fresh air.

    “If you don’t own it, somebody else does”. I decide whether I give my music away for free, not somebody who thinks I owe him/her something. These people must be void of both ‘please’ and ‘thank you’ in their lives too and full of disrespect for others. I bet when they buy their drinks at Starbucks though, they pay up, along with most other things they acquire.

  • http://Irishharpgirl.com Kathleen Hartshorne

    Hi. I have a note on my CD that says “Unauthorized copies of my CD make me poor”. I’m not gonna sue anyone, heck, I’d love it if they downloaded it and listened to it and told other people about me. I earn my “living” at this and don’t have a day job. I count on good will, and fans, and good music, and good times. I’d love to be paid more than .00009 for a download. But I get a major kick out of finding out I sell well in Japan!! The world has changed. Media is passed quickly and generally without money going to the artist. But I get calls from people who heard my music and need me for a wedding or special event. I play for free when I can’t get money for it. It’s just the nature of the beast. I do live to play music. I’d do it if I never got paid. I’d do it from the poor house. (I would agree with the first blog – I’m seriously sick of people who say I’ll get noticed if I play their gig – I wonder if being in the industry for 30 some years is enough dues to pay so that I get actual hard cash for gigs.) I’ve learned to laugh when they say “do you suppose your band members will play for $50?” I tell them not in this world. It’s all a trade off. I get to do what I was born to do… what my soul lives and breathes to do… and I get to be poor. A fair trade off to me…. but I wouldn’t turn down decent CD Baby returns and high paying gigs either!!

  • http://www.drewstephenson.com blinddrew

    Gregunderground. Your first point makes sense. Make it as easy to buy as it is to copy and you’re starting to get somewhere.

    Your second point is, I’m afraid, moot. You can educate all you like, but you can’t stop how the market is working, and at the moment the market is pricing something with a zero unit cost as having a zero unit price. Like it, dislike it, your choice, but you’re not going to change that.

    Your third point is just nuts. Once you start prosecuting generation Y do you think any generation after that is going to buy your music ever? Really?
    If i’m manufacturing a product and someone creates a cheap way of copying that then I create a better product – I don’t sue my potential customer base, funnily enough that won’t persuade them that they should support my business.

    If you want to sell your music you have to find a way to find your true fans and give them a reason to buy it. Otherwise someone else will, there’s a helluva lot of really good music out there, your potential fans are someone else’s potential fans too.

    No-one “deserves” to make a living from anything. You make a living by providing a service that the market is willing to pay for. If you’re lucky that’s doing something you enjoy. For most people it’s a shitty job at an office or a checkout.
    Unfortunately there is no law that says the talented deserve to be paid for their talent.

    Oh, and please stop conflating copying with theft. Your corner store analogy is flawed and you know this, when someone copies a song no-one is deprived of anything. 1 copy does not equal 1 lost sale.

    This the market you have to compete in if you want to be a paid musician. Same as the rest of us. I’d try to find ways to work in the market rather than finding ways to criminalise potential fans.

  • Zwaugy Hunter

    have you ever though of torrents as a good thing too? because i love music n i mostly download them to see how good the music sounds, and later buy the album. I mean im not going to a store and paying for a $12.99-$15.99 for a crappy album or a crappy musican. take any musican n you buy there new album, your pumped to hear it, then you listen to it n it doesn’t sound good at all. You say to yourself i payed for this album. thats a waste of money n it sits on your shelf for days and days and even years. just a waste of space n money. so stop complaining or better yet make music that people want to hear instead of what you what people to hear.

  • http://CherieThomas@thomas-n-taylor.com Cherie Thomas

    I have been singing for many many years (since I was 4 years old) and mostly I did it for free. Many people have asked me for CD’s to buy. I really never could afford to make CD’s before. Now I have a partner and together we have at least $15,000 in guitars and recording equipment so we can make some CD’s of some of the original songs I have written.

    I would like to sell my CD’s and make back some money for our investments of equipment, time, work and effort to produce high quality songs for the people who love our music as much as we do.

    I don’t want to give away the rights to my music. I want to make some money too. Even if a person is talented and has a gift, it takes years of work and dedication to hone their beautiful artistic craft. I wonder why people would want to deny me gas money, food and shelter and a little put away for retirement while they enjoy my music for free all the time? I am on a couple of very very expensive meds for a health condition. I would like to be able to continue to pay for my medication too. At $144 for a 4 day supply for 1 of them, I need to make some money for my music talents and gifts.

    Cherie

  • http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/robbiealan2 Robbie Alan

    Anyone that thinks taking music for free or selling it
    for their own profit doesn’t realize what an artist goes
    to create that music.We go through more than anyone with a
    9 to 5 job.

    Our job security depends on the sale of our music.
    Imagine working for months to buy a nice car,then
    having someone drive off with it. Not only does it
    effect the artist,it also effects the people that work
    for the industry,like janitors,secretaries,and others
    that depend on a paycheck.

    Whatever money artists get,large or small,they have earned it!

  • http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/robbiealan2 Robbie Alan

    In my last comment I forget to put through in front of goes.
    By the way any unauthorized use of an intellectual property
    holds a stiff fine and jailtime. Food for thought.

  • Nappily Blue

    I’m not really concerned with music pirating. It’s something that happens that I can’t control, so I choose not to worry about it. Way I see it, if someone sells my music for their profit, they’ve just hired themselves as a member of my street team. My notoriety gets me gigs and gigs pay the bills. Besides, real fans search out their artists and are almost obsessive about making sure their money goes directly to the artists. I have a mailing list and all the fans on that list know when a new project of mine comes out as well as how to get it. If they want to buy a “bootleg” to save a couple dollars, that’s on them, but the fans I’ve built relationships with (via social networking sites like twitter, facebook, etc.) are adamant about supporting me and only me. I’ve even had a fan (whom I didn’t know) send an email to me asking if I was getting compensated for a purchase they made of my album.

    I am also an anti-capitalist and I believe that art is one of those things that should always remain in the public domain. I just move forward and put all my energy and focus toward making my art. The rate of my production and my consistency pays off, so I don’t have to worry about pirating.

    A way to perhaps buffer against pirating is to send out regular messages on your website or social networking sites that say something on the lines of “Purchase my CD at http://cdbaby.com/blue92 and rest assured that proceeds of the album go directly to the artist!” It’s short, sweet, and places accountability in the hands of the buyer. There will always be thieves, but the average person wants to support artists…especially independent artists.

  • http://members.cdbaby.com CD Baby Admin

    Thanks for sharing, M. We don’t hate you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Caleb-Morgan/648294457 Caleb Morgan

    software piracy shouldn’t be called piracy and just be called file sharing. Distributing music for free honestly promotes new undiscovered artists which means theres more shows and concerts. Doing shows, concerts, and etc. makes money. In reality i could give a flying f*** less about how the artists spent “so much” time and money making their music…I don’t know them, I don’t care about other peoples problems, and the music is there for my enjoyment. Maybe their not “as rich” now because of their music being downloaded…but their still f***in rich and make money in other ways. Music should not be about the money and more about entertaining their audience. I still pay to go to shows and maybe pay for merchandise of theirs. People and artists themselves post songs on youtube that other people listen to for free…isn’t that pirating? Hell…we might as well start charging money for people to look at copyrighted images on google! oooohhh im so scared the big honkin artists out there will have a gulfstream 3 jet instead of a gulfstream 4 their gonna suffer and die from lack of money! lol

    • Helix

      Actually, unless you only listen to Top 40 artists, few of them are “f***in rich”. The musicians that actually suffer because of your selfish “file sharing” are the aspiring musicians who don’t own jets, and will likely never get to that point of success due to those in the world that shared your criminal mindset.

  • Anonymous

    its not ethical to listen music by pirated copy .. but truth is technological advance made this free to copy any music within short time after release only morality can stop this..for new music after a certain period of time music can be free on net its better to get new audience and spread your nice song to other feelings.

    with thanks,
    the fresh beat band

  • http://members.cdbaby.com CD Baby Admin

    I agree that there needs to be a cultural shift where music consumers become more conscious of how their listening habits affect artists, but the sad reality is that if there were serious consequences, we’d need a mighty large prison, like Earth-sized.

  • D J1690

    I often ask myself this same question. I know this certainly the case for everyone, but I like having websites that allow free music downloads because I believe they make music more available to someone compared to going to the store and randomly picking CDs just to get certain songs that you want. I was glad I get to give music to people and when I buy other artists’ music, does that mean the songs and lyric book that some CDs have are solely mine? Or do I only own the flimsy plastic CD that can break and is deemed unusable. Are we paying for actual music to keep or our we only buying a piece of the music and keeping it until it’s gone?

    This is an complex question for both artists and music-consumers. Should people steal music? I don’t call it stealing, even though I and other artists work hard on our music, because it is just a digital file. I would call stealing – <<<<Intentionally taking the music, itself (which includes the beat and lyrics) and selling it, saying it is your own.

    Does anyone agree with this?