Call me crazy, but we constantly get offered shows thru myspace and so forth.
I don’t understand this about it being hard to get booked.
Venues will let anyone play who will pay for the privilege.
There are no paying clubs for Indie bands in AZ

Stop playing for nothing. You are hurting those who need to get paid. You wouldn’t work at any thing else for free would you? If you want to play for free just stay home and practice. THey can’t take that away from you. Be the best at what you do and they will pay you.

Nice post, and promotes a midset we always try to express. You have to approach gigs explaining what is in it for them as a top priority. They are not interested in how good you are, within reason. They want to know if you are good for their customers and are a good prospect for increasing their profits, and sometimes that is done by explaining how you can cut their costs.

We largely operate like buskers at gigs with a tip jar and asking people to buy CDs with whatever they can afford, but beg they don’t go away without a CD. We make wallet CDs that are themed, never spend more than $500 to record them, so net unit cost, including pressing 1000 CDs is under $2 per CD. We cover these costs by asking fans to pre-order CDs through a newsletter. That works well !!. The CD cover design is always in a program and business card format so buyers go away knowing exactly what they have been to and how to contact us for more, usually downloads. Average tip jar donation is $12 a person, and average CD donation is also $12.

It does not take many people at a gig to get decent loot. Because our arrangement is hassle free for the gig owner they rarely want a cut from our takings. We always offer but they usually say “keep it, we did well with drink and food sales”.

We love fundraiser gigs!! The church and community hall stuff. With these we just take the CD money and the gig donations go to the cause. Strangely, these fundraiser gigs are the gigs that people take away 3 or 4 CDs and dump $50 per person on us, so they end up being the most profitable for us, partially because fundraisers usually have larger audiences as well as being good CD selling gigs. Offer yourselves to fundraisers

The article is right. The bottom line in approaching a venue is what you can do for them. I booked bands for 30 years and you get results when you focus on their needs not yours. Yours will get met when you get the gig. Also, if you play for free you’ll be treated that way. Try to get something, at least, and give yourself some value. Ultimately you’ll be paid by your draw, so be good and you’ll draw.

I don’t really know the situation in the United States, but I haven’t had much problem getting a show in Europe at all. There is a certain degree of logics to the thing that I try to follow. I never ask to get payed when I can’t offer them anything in return. So I don’t think asking to get payed no matter what is a solution. The article pointed out one thing very well: they help you if you help them. And this is absolutely true. And the truth is, they need to make money. So you need to make them money. Or just offer a strategy that will pay off in the long-term. I never considered being payed at first-time gigs to be a necessity. Building a relationship with the clubs you like and promoters that suit you is a far better approach. You do intend to go back there to play, don’t you? So why is it a problem if you have to build a following first? Kindest regards!

I can only say we will not play for free or bar tabs. It takes an incredible amount of time and money to get our show and CD out. We are Nation and European wide on the internet and looking for an agent to believe in us and get our show booked. Along the Gulf Coast,”thanks for the oil spill BP”, tourism is down and the clubs won’t book bands unless you accept their offer, which is an insult. Dusty Bones Band will not give up!!!

Reading this article and comments makes me happy I left the U.S. I am glad to be American but being a musician in that country is like being a leper. They will pay someone to sweep the floor and clean the toilets but if you dare try to be taken seriously as a musician (which is a respectable as well as important job) you USUALLY get treated like shit. I have worked for over 10 years as a musician in several countries in Europe. They get it! You make a good living! You don’t have to work full time doing some crap job you hate, you get respect, pay, always food and drink, hotel, and with a bit of effort, (which you now have cause you are not drained from your full time job) bookings which are plentiful. Live music is everywhere. Added bonuses include learing a couple other languages, travelling often, and the feeling that your work is actually worth something. Respect to those who stick it out in the States but in general I feel lots of talent is lost in a culture which generally only takes a musician seriously if they see you on M.T.V.

Playing for free is out of the question. Paying to play somewhere is even MORE out of the question. We book all the paying shows we want by doing exactly what is stated in the article…getting to know the booker, offer them solutions, and bringing a quality show. If you play for free, you make a statement about the value of the product you are offering. If you charge nothing, then that is the perceived value of your music…nothing! Bad idea.

Dear People,
I’m wishing to start gigging, if only a solo act….??? I was wondering, about how to get paid ? I’d require much more money, than the average band. With me having hit songs. The idea, that I’m not getting paid, for down-loads, is scary.
With my new best songs, I’m wondering what to do with them ? I just jammed with my new band, and it was good, but I don’t have the financial base to pay players- A huge salery. How do you work it, all out.? My players, want contracts ? I don’t want to be a loser, like the other bands, that can’t play very well. CD BABY, IS NOT WORKING FOR ME !!! Is there a way to launch, songs, and videos, that get heard..??? Roy Talley ps: Is it possible to get a single song to make it to number 1 ???

Thanks for the info sounds like a smart idea!!!

Nice post. I think your strategy works great all-around the board and not just for booking. Always try to go into situations letting people know what you will do for them… then they’ll start to listen!

I used to let someone else handle booking for my last band. We ended up making more money selling CDs and swag than we ever got from the venues or event. Our first gig together (fundraiser) we sold more CDs and merchandise than we ever did after that – but we still always managed to make money everywhere we played no matter what.

If you want to make money in the music business you have to work hard and do what it takes to make money. Sometimes, that means saying no when you really want to play some where. We got offered to play some festivals where they wouldn’t pay us and wanted money to set up a booth to sell our merchandise. I wished we’d passed on those gigs. We made almost no money and almost no one heard us play.

The best gigs you ever get are the ones where they pay you and/or let you sell merchandise (get real indie bands – you have to invest in merch. or just quit now.) and then there’s a big crowd. Sounds easy enough? It’s not. It’s a tremendous amout of time, money and hard work. If you’re not willing to sell out to the idea of doing all that – try your hand at another career. The music business isn’t for wimps. It’ll chew you up!

Good article! Playing for free isn’t necessary. Every bar (in Toronto) seems to have a different policy, but a % of bar/food sales is not uncommon. That with passing a hat and CD sales, and a band should do alright, IF you have a strong act and do lots of publicity.
Also, see if the bar attracts people on their own. Does anyone go there if no band is playing?

Nice article; thank you.
I agree that playing for free is absolutely out of the question, unless it’s a charity gig. Most of us have spent more time learning our craft than a brain surgeon spent learning his. We deserve to be paid a decent amount.
On the other hand, we should always be aware of the fact that a venue owner needs to increase his profit by more that he’s paying the musicians. Simple arithmetic!

There are clubs and pubs in the UK. That’s my scene. Promoters need to ensure you bring enough people before you get booked. Pubs are also struggling because of the economy so they expect you to bring lots of people to guarantee a good sale of alcohol on the night.
We normally don’t play for free. We’re professional musicians. We would however play for free for good causes, i.e. charity gigs, or any major shows/festivals that will add free exposure.
one thing that I can’t perosnally stand is the attitude of some pubs expecting you to provide PA, lights etc. play for at least 2-3 hrs and expecting you to accept their going rate. Remember: you are providing a service. If you call a plumber he will charge you for his services….

Many good comments here. Yes, professional musicians should not play for free,any more than one would expect any other person providing something of value (plumber, mechanic, barber, etc) to do so. Since working with Sonibids, I have been utterly amazed that many, many gigs expect you to play for free, and even pay to play (that’s what IL politicians do!). I refuse to,and I see many of the commentors do as well; if all professional musicians were to do that, it would quickly end. Respect yourselves!
As for the original article, thank you- it gave me a different way to think about the whole process.

This is a great article! It seems to me that the only way to play in Northern Indiana is to be a cover band. Those are the bands that seem to get paid. For me, why would I want to hear a another band play a cover when I can stay home and put the CD on? My band has a space on Gig Salad and I understand not everyone appreciates progressive rock, especially when some of the material is instrumental. And yes, we do a couple of covers but not 4 sets of them! Just a few to show our different tastes in music. Fundraisers seems like a good idea, so I guess I need to start looking into some local stuff. But, it really seems to me that Northern Indiana stinks if you want to play your own stuff. Everyone here would rather listen to a band do a horrible rendition of what is currently being played on the radio, then listen to a great band play its heart out, doing their own material and selling their music. Here, it’s the cover stuff that buys the alcohol. But, we’re not giving up! Once again, great article!!

John of Celtic Ways – I like the ‘cut of your jib’ I’ve also found that offering CDs for what you can afford has generated much higher sales than rigid fixed price especially when it is tied to a cause.

Andy

I have an idea that I haven’t tried yet ………….. Has anyone tried lining up a bunch of similar bands on their own and presenting the package to clubs?
Say …. get 3 punk bands or 3 hair bands or 3 blues or southern rock or whatever kind of band you have – bands and present the theme night as a complete line up?

Work out deals/ agreements between the bands first as far as what they’d accept as dollars or CD sale tables etc. … you know…? Bands with websites and/or CDs would probably be an easier sell to the booker, but that may be a good option. The bands could also agree to do flyers or a newspaper ad or other promotion if it seemed worthwhile. All of that would take some weight off of the booker’s shoulders and possibly get an agreement.

The hard part about where we live is the is NO venues. We’ve got hall, but DJ’s and the sort have gone there and wrecked the place. So now the owners just assume we’re going to tear the place up to. Finding a venue should not be such a chore.

We don’t play for free (except charity) which means we don’t play out at all except private parties that will pay us. And thankfully by word of mouth we do get some good paying shows that way.
There simply are no paying clubs here at all unless you are a cover band. You cannot sell mech without a permit each time either which makes it all so not worth while and you better have a tax license number too.
Plus you only get 30 minutes to play.

There are lots of good posts here. It is now and has always been a principle that a business transaction must be a mater of “win, win” for all participants. The venue has to see the “win” for them. The “win” is revenue (as it is for all). It has always been the case that only a small percent of bands actually have the drawing power. Bands do their best to create drawing power, as always, but the percent of “drawers” hasn’t moved much. A great deal has changed over the years as to how the game is played, but results have not, and may have actually deteriorated. The money for local, regional, indie bands is the same as it has been since the ‘60’s.

Successful venues are able to establish credibility with consistent, service, food, drink, and a minimum standard for the quality of entertainment. They usually sprinkle in a “name” act from time to time to reinforce this. That is where the band needs to find their fit. You have to understand the venue, their business plan, etc. That is how you determine how to present yourself as a “win” for the venue.

You are probably doing yourself more harm than good by working for free. You diminish yourself as a product. It is true that you teach people how to treat you. You will face bottom-end audiences, and bottom-end venues. This is not exactly what contributes to a successful chemistry. “Guilt by association” works against you when you are on the lower rungs of the ladder, and in your favor only on the higher rungs.

One positive way to approach a “free” gig is doing it for prestigious charities. However, use the fact you are doing it for free to negotiate terms of the gig. How you are featured, presented, introduced. Be included in the advertising. Have a say as to how you are presented in the advertising. Make the fact there is no such thing as a free lunch work in your favor. Otherwise, you will be tucked away in a back closet, minimized, and your “brand” damaged.

Another way to approach a “free” gig is if you are a promoter type; use the venue as a “free hall.” Treat it as an opportunity to throw your own event and the benefit is that the “auditorium” is free. Promoting events is a business all its own. If you can do it, approach the “free” gig in this manner – turn it into an opportunity. Make sure the event oozes with you as a “headliner.”

To all those bands playing for free…STOP!!! You are ruining it for the rest of us that are trying to make a living out of this and saying you can’t make any money out of a music career is just an excuse for your lack of ability or laziness…I just want to ask one question….what do you guys think of bands or acts that have been playing for years and are only taking gigs where they can play covers as well as originals and still only manage to bring no more than 10 people?

Quit whining about bands that play for free. Not everyone who performs live is trying to make a living at it.

In the case of my own band, we do it purely for fun and don’t particularly care if we get paid or not.

Which isn’t to say we intentionally try to avoid getting paid. We’ll take the cash when it’s offered, but we really don’t need it.

We never ever ever ‘pay to play’, we refuse to pre-sell tickets and we will never guarantee a draw of any kind. There’s simply no need to subject ourselves to any of it.

I have an idea that I haven’t tried yet ………….. Has anyone tried lining up a bunch of similar bands on their own and presenting the package to clubs?
Say …. get 3 punk bands or 3 hair bands or 3 blues or southern rock or whatever kind of band you have – bands and present the theme night as a complete line up?

Work out deals/ agreements between the bands first as far as what they’d accept as dollars or CD sale tables etc. … you know…? Bands with websites and/or CDs would probably be an easier sell to the booker, but that may be a good option. The bands could also agree to do flyers or a newspaper ad or other promotion if it seemed worthwhile. All of that would take some weight off of the booker’s shoulders and possibly get an agreement.

Booking or representation without an agents Lic. in State of CA is not good business. There is a way to obtain finders fees amount friends but do not represent yourself as an agent or manager etc. without proper lic. or in the end of such things your creditability, as well as those friends, will suffer.

Always have a standard contract pre printed out when you do face to face interviews of club venues. Visit the club a few times prior to see how the other groups draw. Use the Musician Unions contract if you are a member of your local or build your own based on that which will protect you as the Union’s would in case of non payment.
Remember professionals all work with contracts in all jobs. Even the club owner has a contract with the beer distributor so it will only show you as a professional in dealing with contracts even among your band members. Do it right from the start and you foundation will last longer & stronger.

Also to book a club you might make an agreement to do a fill-in for any band that can’t make their gig with your business card. Give it to the group leader of the current group as a fill in when they get an outside gig they’d rather do on one night. That’s a paid audition you would do for their local clients.

Also remember that those who do this for fun instead of pay are hurting others who want to make a living being a club performer. IF food is given for free why buy it? This makes it hard for professional musicians when others just do it for fun which actually is showing a lack of respect for the craft …respect the craft & art of making music by anyone & you’ll be respected for what you do too.

Remember apples & oranges:

If you are a club performer then you are an apple. If you are a recording artist you are an orange. Both are fruits with two different jobs. Recording artist bottom line job is to sell recordings for the label plus more. Club performers are to bring in customers for the club to sell the clubs food or drinks i.e. their products. Decide which one you want to be first.

Tone or tune up as a club performer being close to those who pay your bills (audiences) and then jump into being a recording artists once you have been able to build a large following, also obtaining investors as the little league teams of the town – get sponsors, get your audiences coming in to enjoy your music. Lastly get a music lawyer to represent you to the labels once you prove the ability to generate marketing potential enough to pay the music lawyer. Remember PR is created many times by record labels to direct sales for their commercial products to replace the investment $s which is a loan to the artist in recording contract needing repayment like a house bank loan.
It’s a hard life to be in either profession: Club performer or Recording Artist.
Keep it always simple and you’ll do fine, but don’t build a bad foundation on a career or you’ll end before you get started as bad news travels fast.

Don’t stop making music either original or cover tunes since playing music is a craft which some can learn fast and others it takes years. Also music is an art form which a song is an inheritable piece of intellectual property worthy of respect as the artists who deliver.

Taken in conversation with CJP-NHRecords.com Staff talking with a Grammy voting member & CEO of a commercially charted record label.

That’s right! Make it easy for them!
Joe Gusich
Elektrik Sunset

My son is in 4 bands. No one is interested in booking heavy metal bands.

So, he puts shows together by himself in the Raleigh area. I don’t think he even realizes that he is acting as a promoter.

Last weekend he put together a successful show with three bands–one was a band he is in and the other two were bands that he had heard and met the members. They were all cool people and everything went really well.

No prima donnas, no problems switching bands in and out–it was all quick and smooth.

They took in over $550. That might seem like small potatoes but it beats playing for free–all 3 bands were paid, sound man was paid and even the door guy got paid.

It’s a good night when there is a great crowd and everyone gets paid.

For anyone that is interested, Raleigh has a thriving heavy metal music community. It’s not just dark and loud and leather, its an entertaining, fun and exciting!

[...] By Kevin at CD Baby [...]

I don’t get this unwavering DON’T PLAY FOR FREE deal. Maybe it depends on where you are. I happen to live in a town with about 150 clubs/bars and about 500 rock bands. Those aren’t exaggerated numbers, maybe even conservative. MANY clubs offer FREE Shows: No admission for the audience. If we were to turn down all these free shows…….well, we wouldn’t be playing many shows. And if the venues charged covers, they wouldn’t have many patrons. Every night in this town, there are about 100 places to go hear music and drink beer. Many times the venue will give us a cut of the bar. And yes, if your band has no draw and you expect to get paid then I think the band needs to re-adjust their attitude regarding their worth. Do we want to make money? Obviously. Do we like performing regardless? Yes. Even if you do get paid for a Tuesday night show at Club X, Y or Z is it really about “the money” or is it more about the thought of someone not giving a shit about your band that sounds like every other band in town? Bars and clubs want people to drink and eat at their establishments. If there’s a $5 cover for bands no one has heard of, that decreases the amount of patrons that enter the door. At least in my city, the bands that have a draw and are well known usually have shows with cover charges and they get paid decently. BUT, if your band has only been around a year and you average 20 people at a show…you can’t expect the venues to knock down your door with offers of $300 for a 45 minute set. Not gonna happen. I’d say: Unless you consistently bring 40-50+ for each show and every venue knows your band, don’t expect to get paid much every show. If this is not good for you, then stay at your rehearsal space and work on making a perfect record or something. Bookers like to “like” the bands they book, but at a certain point its not all about the music anymore. They need to make money, too…and they really aren’t making as much as some think.